Talk:My Neighbor Totoro
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Girls dead, movie references Sayama Incident
editWhile it is true that Ghibli has denied (in Japanese) the reading of the film that sees both girls dead by the end of the film, there are so many factors supporting that reading (Western trolls being particularly unpleasant; numerous parallels with the ill-fated girls of Sayama Incident which occurred in May (Jap: Satsuki) near the movie's setting; Mei seeing the spirits first, Satsuki next, Kanta never; Mei lost and resting under jizou statues, patrons of deceased children; the pair hiding from the rain at another shrine for dead children; the psychopompy catbus posting "Cemetary Way" as a default destination; the ghostly nature of the girls' ultimate visit to their mother's sanatorium; Miyazaki having allegedly originally glossed the movie as showing the girls' spirits finding peace; the original double-billing with Grave of the Fireflies; etc.) that the controversy should certainly be mentioned and the Sayama Incident linked from the page.
Similarly worth mentioning if it's true that Miyazaki's own mother was treated for tuberculosis and survived (producing a much happier read on the essentially ambiguous treatment of the girls' mom). — LlywelynII 22:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Urban Legend
editThe reason it is a legend does not give support to just deleting every trace of the thing. Stop doing that, that IS vandalism. People are intelligent enough to see it's a legend and draw their conclusions. For reasons of completeness, this should definitely be in the page. Sunstarfire (talk) 09:02, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- It is not vandalism. Please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia guidelines. A bizarre interpretation sourced to a single blog is not worthy of inclusion. Mezigue (talk) 11:26, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see that "urban legend" has any part here. However other interpretations of Totoro are far from Snopes territory - particularly implications that the children may be dead. Whether this is definite or not doesn't really matter: the point is that there is a lot of cultural significance to small aspects within the film that pass Western viewers by. It is surely encyclopedic content to explain these types of reference. Whether the film comes to a conclusion or not doesn't matter (just think of the Bladerunner controversies, which WP handles pretty well), as it's quite possible that the film is deliberately ambiguous in its conclusions.
- I don't see Sayama as relevant though. It has two girls, but it's also based on violence rather than illness. This isn't a simple case like the Shibuya incident and the film Shinjuku Incident. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:34, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- The urban legend does need to be included. This is widely associated with Totoro in Japan. And there are a number of sources. The fact it is not true does not mean that people don't associate these urban legends with totoro. Also, the various urban legends are discussed on the Japanese page. There are three sources for this. I agree with Sunstarfire (talk) Deathlibrarian (talk) 23:13, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- If you have any issues with this going back in, now that it has 3 references, please discuss here. Otherwise I will leave it a little bit to give people a chance to discuss, and re add. Thanks everyone. Deathlibrarian (talk) 23:56, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Anyone have any issues? Bueller? :-) Deathlibrarian (talk) 03:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- As there are no objections to the issue, I have modified it and added the section in. Please feel free to discuss if there are any objections or issues Deathlibrarian (talk) 09:24, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that this shouldn't be in the article. Wikipedia is based on reliable sources and should simply present factual information about the film. There is no place for fan theories or trolling. For example, the Japanese wikipedia article at no point claims that Totoro represents death. Drsmoo (talk) 19:21, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
- Just because wikipedia is based on factual information doesn't mean it cannot have information about theories. In fact there are whole wikipedia pages dedicated to certain ideas or theories that have not been proven but that doesn't mean they cannot be represented in an unbiased way. The urban legend about Totoro is widely associated with the movie and is worth noting when discussing possible meanings behind the film Rachelleliu (talk) 02:30, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- I looked at the removed content, and it's difficult to verify the notability with all the offline Japanese sources. Are there any better sources out there? If it's just a relatively obscure fan theory, it's probably better left out. --Fru1tbat (talk) 19:12, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Just because wikipedia is based on factual information doesn't mean it cannot have information about theories. In fact there are whole wikipedia pages dedicated to certain ideas or theories that have not been proven but that doesn't mean they cannot be represented in an unbiased way. The urban legend about Totoro is widely associated with the movie and is worth noting when discussing possible meanings behind the film Rachelleliu (talk) 02:30, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- I agree that this shouldn't be in the article. Wikipedia is based on reliable sources and should simply present factual information about the film. There is no place for fan theories or trolling. For example, the Japanese wikipedia article at no point claims that Totoro represents death. Drsmoo (talk) 19:21, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
- As there are no objections to the issue, I have modified it and added the section in. Please feel free to discuss if there are any objections or issues Deathlibrarian (talk) 09:24, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Two Different KittenBus Paragraphs
edithttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_films_by_Studio_Ghibli#Mei_and_the_Kittenbus Can we find a way to combine or make them the same? They can both still exist, but all information should be uniform between them. xnamkcor (talk) 19:14, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
List of songs
editThese are listed with the Romanised version, the kanji, and an English gloss; fair enough, but then the whole thing is enclosed in quotes, as in this example:
- "Gogatsu no Mura (五月の村, "The Village in May")"
This results in at least an ugly ")" ending, which would be neater without the outermost quotes. I cannot see any reason for them, but before I remove them, I would just like to check there is not some obscure Wikirule which compels them. Imaginatorium (talk) 05:20, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Wrong running time?
editMost other sources cite a 86 minutes running time as is my DVD version of the movie. Is the infobox wrong? 10:57, 18 August 2018 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.150.110.169 (talk)
Netflix Sub/Dub
editIt may be worth adding to this article that the version of this movie on Netflix is a new sub/dub apparently [1]. I would do it myself, but I'm terrible at Wikipedia editing. 99.252.158.137 (talk) 00:43, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Year set is unverifiable
editThis article has had "1958" given as the year the story is set for the past 13 years, this is based on an edit which sources a calendar — not in the movie — but in a real-life replica of the Kusakabe house in Moricoro Park, Japan.
There is contrary evidence given in an old entry on this talk page where a calendar in the movie shows an April set on a Monday, within the 50s this can only be 1957. I'm more inclined to believe this, but truth is, it's original research, and actually there's no way to verify what year it was set. JAYFAX (talk) 10:07, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Red links
editBeauty School Dropout While there are times where redlinking is appropriate, this movie has come out decades ago, and it is unlikely that the red links you added back will become an article, because it is likely unnotable. See WP:REDYES for more info TheGEICOgecko (talk) 01:22, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
"Literal" translation
editI removed this: (literally|Neighbour of Totoro) from the lead, because it is simply wrong. It is not clear that any more "literal" translation helps the reader in any way. We have an editor producing the clumsy "Next door's Totoro", but at least getting the grammar the right way around, and another getting the grammar completely wrong, with "Neighbour of Totoro". The relevant grammatical point is the Japanese is (everywhere) head-final, and particles like no (の) allow a noun on the left to qualify the noun on the right. So tonari ("next door") qualifies Totoro. It does not necessarily indicate possession, and cannot necessarily be translated with "of"; in this case it simply means "The Totoro who lives next door". The only part of the English title not directly mapping to anything in the Japanese is "My", and in some contexts the same expression could indeed refer to "Your neighbour Totoro", or "Mr Smith's neighbour Totoro". I suggest that no "literal" translation is needed. Imaginatorium (talk) 05:31, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks
editThanks to Baffle gab1978 for the c/e and adding the cn tags, which I've addressed. VickKiang (talk) 22:32, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
GA Review
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:My Neighbor Totoro/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Sims2aholic8 (talk · contribs) 12:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Taking on this article for review. Will read through the article over the next couple of days and provide my commentary in the table below. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 12:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Have reviewed article against some of the sections below, will continue to review over the coming days. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 21:48, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
@VickKiang: I have added some additional comments/replies to some of the points addressed, as well as new points from the recent edits from other users. There are still outstanding points below which require addressing. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 12:04, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
@VickKiang: I have flagged in the below the issues which still require addressing. Please ensure these are covered off at your earliest convenience. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 21:39, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
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1. Well-written: | ||
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. |
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1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. |
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2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. | No issues here | |
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). |
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2c. it contains no original research. | * "for a total of $41,076,708" in "Box office" has no ref
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2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. | No instances of copyvio or plagiarism detected. | |
3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | Happy that the main aspects of the subject have been covered broadly. | |
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). |
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4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. | Happy that this point is covered adequately. | |
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. | No issues here. | |
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. | No notes. | |
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | No notes. | |
7. Overall assessment. | Assessment now complete. Several areas remain outstanding against the GA criteria as outlined above, particularly around prose, sourcing and OR. Placing this review on hold to allow the nominator time to enact any changes I have suggested above. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 12:41, 23 March 2023 (UTC) |
This GA review has now been ongoing for a month, and still a number of the issues I presented have not been addressed. I will give this another week to be resolved, otherwise I will close the review as a fail. Pinging VickKiang for awareness. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 08:20, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Sims2aholic8: I think I've replied to all of the concerns marked with n.b. If you have any outstanding verfiability, no OR, or prose concerns relevant to 1a and 1b following my changes please bring these up as well.
- Additionally, I'm unsure whether I accidentally messed up the template of this but somehow for me the GA review now displays 2c as merely "pending" in bold instead of displaying the suggestions. Could you have a look at this as well? Thanks for your time and patience. VickKiang (talk) 01:15, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for continuing to work on this article. I am completing one final review of the whole article and will list any additional points which need to be addressed below.
- Within the lead, Jerry Beck is listed as co-producer of the original English dub but he's not listed anywhere else in the article.
- Removed.
- The Australian and UK releases of the second dub in the lead are also not listed anywhere else in the article.
- Moved the Australian release, which doesn't seem due weight to be ledeworthy, to the body
, will try to find a ref for the UK claim and then move that to the body as well soon. VickKiang (talk) 21:24, 21 May 2023 (UTC), for the UK one I could not find RS backing up this so have removed for the time being. VickKiang (talk) 07:39, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- Moved the Australian release, which doesn't seem due weight to be ledeworthy, to the body
- Discrepancy between the total worldwide box office gross in the lead ($41m) and in the article ($30.4m)
- The discrepancy is because the $30.4 million figure is only for box office
since 2002
. I've added another ref from SCMP here, a 2021 article which notes the box reports to be $41 million, which is the same as the lead stat. VickKiang (talk) 04:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- The discrepancy is because the $30.4 million figure is only for box office
- Home video sales also has a discrepancy, with $277m in lead vs. $202m for VHS and DVD in Japan and $64.5m in US
- I couldn't find a ref, as such, I've removed the stat in the lede and reworded so the line now reads
My Neighbor Totoro has grossed over $41 million worldwide at the box office as of September 2019; the film also grossed significantly more from home video sales and merchandise.
Is this acceptable? VickKiang (talk) 07:32, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- I couldn't find a ref, as such, I've removed the stat in the lede and reworded so the line now reads
- The $1.142 billion for merchandise is not supported anywhere in the article, with only various yen values for certain years in the merchandise section
- Removed.
- There's a reference to cameo appearances in video games, however nothing in present in the article
- I've also removed the statement that Totoro had cameos in video games. I couldn't find anything in the paragraph (
Totoro has made cameo appearances in many Studio Ghibli films, including Pom Poko, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Whisper of the Heart. The character has also appeared in other anime series and films, including one episode of the Gainax television series His and Her Circumstances. Miyazaki uses Totoro as a part of his logo for Studio Ghibli. Totoro also makes a cameo appearance in the Pixar film Toy Story 3 (2010) but was not included in Toy Story 4 due to licensing problems. Toy Story 3's art director Daisuke Tsutsumi is married to Miyazaki's niece, who inspired the character Mei in My Neighbor Totoro
) that supports it, but either way it seems quite minor and not of due weight for lede inclusion. VickKiang (talk) 06:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
- I've also removed the statement that Totoro had cameos in video games. I couldn't find anything in the paragraph (
- Slight update for Rotten Tomatoes' aggregate now based on 57 reviews
- Done
- No references in the Legacy for Totoro's cameo appearances in other Ghibli films or in other media
- I've removed the mentions of the Ghibli cameos, which seem to be minor & unsourced trivia.
Will have a look at whether the other cameo mentions are trivial soon. VickKiang (talk) 21:51, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Apologies for my slow responses due to an illness. I've removed another piece of trivia for Totoro being included in His and Her Circumstances, so this should be it.VickKiang (talk) 04:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)- I've also tweaked the lead wording slightly, see my edit summary here. VickKiang (talk) 04:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- I've removed the mentions of the Ghibli cameos, which seem to be minor & unsourced trivia.
- The Stage adaption section could also do with an update to include mention of the play's second season from November 2023
- Added (though I just copied from My Neighbor Totoro (play) because I'm lazy...) VickKiang (talk) 07:32, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
Every other section of the article is now fully compliant with the GA criteria. Once these points have been addressed I will be happy to promote this article to GA. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 19:50, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for your response, just a note that I might be slow in replying to other suggestions (I'll try to reply to two within 48 hours). Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 22:17, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
Note I've also removed the statement that Totoro had cameos in video games. I couldn't find anything in the paragraph (Totoro has made cameo appearances in many Studio Ghibli films, including Pom Poko, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Whisper of the Heart. The character has also appeared in other anime series and films, including one episode of the Gainax television series His and Her Circumstances. Miyazaki uses Totoro as a part of his logo for Studio Ghibli. Totoro also makes a cameo appearance in the Pixar film Toy Story 3 (2010) but was not included in Toy Story 4 due to licensing problems. Toy Story 3's art director Daisuke Tsutsumi is married to Miyazaki's niece, who inspired the character Mei in My Neighbor Totoro
) that supports it, but either way it seems quite minor and not of due weight for lede inclusion. VickKiang (talk) 06:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)- @Sims2aholic8: I think I've replied to all of your final comments. As you know I've been taking an extended semi-wikibreak because of RL, so sorry for the slow pace. VickKiang (talk) 07:32, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- @VickKiang: Thank you for progressing with this, I'm happy with all the changes that have been made. There is however a "failed verification" tag on the first sentence of the "English dubs" section which has since been added and which will need to be fixed before I can pass this article. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 10:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Sims2aholic8: Thanks for your quick reply; I've replaced that ref with Kotaku, which is RS per WP:VG/RS for video games at least. It should IMO be mostly similar for films, the entry do advice caution for blog or geek like articles, but this seems fine and is used for a IMO not overly contentious routine date claim. Also, it states
in 1989, just a year after its original debut, Totoro was adapted for English audiences by Streamline Pictures. The movie was exclusive to transatlantic passengers flying with Japan Airlines
instead of in 1988, so I've changed the date here as well. VickKiang (talk) 11:15, 6 June 2023 (UTC)- @VickKiang: Thanks for the quick fix there. I'm happy that the new source provided is reliable for this purpose, and I'm now happy that all aspects of the GA review have been met and that all issues above have been resolved. With this I am very pleased to promote this article to GA. Great work all around and thank you for being as responsive as possible under the circumstances. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 12:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Sims2aholic8: Thanks for your quick reply; I've replaced that ref with Kotaku, which is RS per WP:VG/RS for video games at least. It should IMO be mostly similar for films, the entry do advice caution for blog or geek like articles, but this seems fine and is used for a IMO not overly contentious routine date claim. Also, it states
- @VickKiang: Thank you for progressing with this, I'm happy with all the changes that have been made. There is however a "failed verification" tag on the first sentence of the "English dubs" section which has since been added and which will need to be fixed before I can pass this article. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 10:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
"One Rainy Night"/"One Rainy Evening" phrase
edit@Sims2aholic8:, thanks for your detailed review, @TheBlinkster:, I thank you for correcting the incorrect tense here, which used to be present continuous but I accidentally changed it into past simple, inconsistent with the rest of the plot section.
However, TheBlinkster, you've restored the line "One rainy evening". This is indeed long-standing text but I've removed as in the article's GAN review it was said that The "Plot" section could use some work to make sure it is written from a more neutral, out-of-universe point-of-view as per MOS:PLOT. In my opinion references to, for example, "one rainy night" and "one day", venture more into creative writing than an encyclopaedic plot summary
by Sims2aholic8. TheBlinkster, I'd be interested if you have an opinion about the phrase (as in whether it builds upon additional context). Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 00:47, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
Alice in Wonderland
editIt has some striking similarities with Alice in Wonderland; I'm not sure if/where to include it, but some sources that may help: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]
Gabriel Yuji (talk) 03:08, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Gabriel Yuji: This information is certainly interesting, and I think a sentence mentioning it could be fit somewhere in the Reception section, though I'm not sure exactly where. Links 4 and 5 seem like WP:SELFPUB, by the way, so I might not include them. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:54, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
About "cult following"
editHey Poirot09, I don't think the phrase "cult following" should be used in the lead at the moment, as the phrase is never used later in the article. I also could not find a source that uses this specific phrase, which is why I let DBeyer2003's edit stand. Let me know what you think! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 12:58, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- After re-reading the article, I think the phrase should be outright removed. There is no substantial information regarding the fandom, only about Totoro's impact as a character, which is already covered in the lead. Poirot09 (talk) 13:22, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- I think that makes sense. Lacking any significant discussion in the body, there's no reason for it to remain in the lead. I'll go ahead and remove it. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 15:18, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Dead link
editI've noticed that one of the sources in the legacy section (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i3338808b4eeae51f3a3a1b041eee3d7c/) has been tagged as dead since last year, is there a way we could deal with this? Blue Jay (talk) 10:35, 20 September 2023 (UTC)