Talk:Melbourne Press Club

CSD

Me again, I have re written most of it. There is no doubt the MPC is notable. Phgao 14:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The notability is not the issue. The issue is that minor changes in wording do not alleviate a copyright violation. You need to rewrite the article from scratch. — madman bum and angel 14:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I've changed it quite a bit, but I am in the process of emailing them, asking if I am able to use their infomation for Wikipedia. Is that alright as well in conjunction with the rewriting. Phgao 14:04, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I have evaluated this, and it is not a copyright copy/paste issue. The information was taken from that site, certainly, but it is not word for word, and has been sufficiently paraphrased that Google does not return that page when pasting. That said, I do not think that the club itself should be used as a reference, (that's a self-reference) and instead, should be put into the external links section. ^Ariel♥Gold 14:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Yay! Ok got it, next time I won't use self-refs. Learn something everyday. I'll continue to improve the article as I go, as there are quite a lot of refs to it in the news. Phgao —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 14:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it shouldn't be too hard to get a few good news articles. I believe you could use the website perhaps to establish the location, but it should be noted if you find a news ref, so not needed. (And good morning Phgao!) ^Ariel♥Gold 14:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

ArielGold: It may be paraphrased, but it's still plagiarism; it's not his own work. It's simply best to rewrite the article. Phgao: You may want to see WP:COPYREQ. That makes note of what you should mention in your request; the copyright holder should know exactly what his licensure entails (if it's not licensed under the GFDL and the terms mentioned, we can't use it.)

Cheers! — madman bum and angel 14:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate your fast comments Madman! I'll look into it. Also I could ask to be able to use sections of other parts of the site as well. Phgao 14:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

You could, yes. — madman bum and angel 14:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, there are only so many ways to say what a company is, does, and where it is located, so that is why I said it wasn't an "obvious" copy/paste from the website. (The CSD tag said "unquestionably" a copy/paste, and I was responding to that.) The intro sentence will inevitably have the same words as that site, as the article is describing what this club is, so that's not what I'd call plagiarism, personally. The rest, I'd agree would be best to get some sources and then write based on those. ^Ariel♥Gold 14:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

PROD

I've assembled a list of possible references. Oh and I just realised there is a cat for MPC as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Melbourne_Press_Club_Members

• http://abc.net.au/corp/pubs/media/s2029899.htm by Paul Chadwick Australian Broadcasting Corporation Director Editorial Policies.
• http://about.theage.com.au/list_award.asp
• http://www.pm.gov.au/media/Speech/2007/Speech24445.cfm The Prime Minister of Australia addresses the Club.

Added the above in citation template format, hope you don't mind!. ^Ariel♥Gold 14:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Of course not! I really appreciate your help Ariel, thanks again! Phgao 14:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

• http://www.komodocms.com/SC003MelbournePressClub
• http://www.about.sensis.com.au/community/industry_associations.php

Phgao 14:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

First one is just the website designer. Not really something worth noting, the article isn't about the website. Second one I added. ^Ariel♥Gold 14:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, Jreferee has a point about many of the sources being associated with the club. I didn't read them, I just added them into templates since I'd figured you'd evaluated them. I don't know what to tell you. As I mentioned, I did do a search for news articles and found none, so, while I think the references that prove John Howard spoke there, or that prove the club offers the Quill award are probably valid, the others probably can't be used to expand the content, I really don't know what to tell you, perhaps ask Jreferee what he suggests. ^Ariel♥Gold 16:18, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I will do that, as he knows quite a lot regarding these things. But I think I understand his concerns now, but then I think why would you write an article on the press club itself, if you know what I mean, articles would be based on what happened at the club, the events there, I think. Phgao 16:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Another Note

While I think that this article is very small, it should not be deleted as the MPC's awards are actually cited by many professional journalists as part of their "achievements". i.e. Here is one[[1]]. Phgao 17:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[2] says

THE Quills, held by the Melbourne Press Club on Friday night at the Grand Hyatt in Melbourne, was the scene of a great media reconciliation. During the awards, Quills host Peter Mitchell surprised everyone by asking Glenn Milne and Stephen Mayne to stand up and shake hands. The Sunday Telegraph columnist and the Crikey founder crossed the floor and publicly made their peace. The last time they were seen together Milne was shoving Mayne off the stage at the Walkleys.

Referring to this incident :Scuffle Phgao 17:07, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Something to add later, http://www.mediaman.com.au/articles/king_of.html, says "He was president of the Melbourne Press Club from 1999 to 2003." referring to Neil Mitchell [3]. Phgao 17:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Yet another self reference, if you may call it that, [4]. Phgao 17:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

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