Talk:Melisma

Overused

- 12/4/05 - Changed overused to used in the sentence: "Melisma is today commonly overused in Western popular music", because it conveys the opinion of the author. Melsisma's are used a lot, but whether it is overused or not is a matter of personal taste, and should not be part of any dictionary. - Rich

Thanks for that! Wikipedia strives to present information in a neutral, unbiased fashion. --Merovingian 05:45, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Interesting use of melisma as a pejorative in a recent slate article: http://www.slate.com/id/2142156/

Jody Rosen writing in Slate.com again uses melisma http://www.slate.com/id/2145719/ --Bjsamelsonjones 18:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Melisma Music Analyzer

Is Melisma Music Analyzer notable enough to include on this article? I'm inclined to remove because I don't particularly care about similarly named software programs when I'm reading an article about some other non-software topic. The most egregious example I've come across on WP is an instant message client named "pork". — Shadowhillway 02:42, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

More Examples

While the Barnes' example is appropriate it may not be known well-enough to be useful. During certain parts of the year Handel's Messiah is nearly inescapable. There are melismatic passages throughout the work, in the arias and in the choruses, many of which are not at all fun to sing.

I would add examples from there but I am not where my Messiah score is. I do not know if it would be to include links to free examples but only because I have not look for them. JimCubb 01:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Presumably the Barnes example was provided by a user from the US - the tune "Gloria" is far more commonly sung with the words "Angels from the realms of glory" in Britain, see: http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/angels_from_the_realms_of_glory.htm.

Re: the Messiah - it's clearly an example of the subject of the article, but does it stand out as such? Surely choral music of that sort is absolutely rammed with melisma? It's not at all the same as doing the same in the tune of a song, IMO. Frumious 16:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Russian Znamenny chant would also be a good example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.153.140.70 (talk) 00:41, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

and from the 20th Century

Would the word "love" in Eight Days a Week be an example?

I would have thought that Whitney Houston's hugely popular version of "I Will Always Love You" is the definitive example of this trope in modern music. It's right there, in the chorus, the very first word (letter?) of the chorus. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 15:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Depends where "modern music" begins. There are field recordings of African-American ag workers singing this way in the earlier 20th century. It was sometimes a part of certain forms of gospel singing. Some Af-Am blues singers used the technique, and some white singers inspired by them, such as "Pigpen" Ron McKernan (1960's) used melisma sparingly. Whitney had a distinct way of doing it, but really it was all over the place if a person is aware of American music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.210.166.185 (talk • contribs)

Another reference

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6791133

Here's an interview with Anthony Heilbut (musician and author) on Melisma. I figured someone could use it if they plan on expanding the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.32.197.178 (talk) 20:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

List of artists

Is it really a good idea to list a bunch of pop/r&b artists who sing in melismatic fashion? One might include just about anyone here. In fact, it would be more instructive to consider contemporary artists who don't use it, as it is really more common than not. I think this list needs to be removed or else it runs the risk of spinning out of control. VectorPosse 05:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I haven't heard any opinion on this. (I'm not sure anybody is watching this page.) I am inclined to wait a few more days and then delete this whole list unless there are objections. (Normally, I would just be WP:Bold but such a large deletion ought to have some kind of consensus.) VectorPosse 06:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I opt for deletion of this section! This is completely out of proportion. If one wanted to list some famous examples of artists using melismatic style, a balanced list of composers over history would be appropriate, and not this. I'm watching the page, and if nobody else does, I'll delete that section on may 20, 2007. Rsling 00:36, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Eminem? Really? This isn't really typical of his "singing" style is it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.21.227.72 (talk) 14:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources

I have now removed the arbitrary list of pop musicians. However, the article lacks sources. Whoever wrote this should at least cite some encyclopedia of music or whatever (s)he used. --Rsling 15:00, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I never got around to doing it myself. (And I came to this article quite recently, so I have no idea about its origins other than what the history page tells me.) VectorPosse 09:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Alternative Name

Any sources for the term 'vocal runs'? It seems more of a derogative term than anything else, and displays more of the author's opinion. I'll delete that term just now until someone comes up with a suitable source. MP

Here is one: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6791133

68.107.83.19 (talk) 07:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Vocal run is not derogatory, and that kind of cultural ignorance (along with ridiculous statements like the one attributing the popularity of vocal runs to Mariah Carey) is why anything in Wikipedia concerning African Americans is dubious at best. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.51.238.31 (talk) 19:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Coloratura relation

To me (not a musician) a melisma seems like a cheap version of coloratura. Would be interesting if someone could discuss this. Metallion (talk) 23:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

This is an interesting point. I might disagree with the word "cheap", but there are large similarities between the two methods that would be helpful to spell out to the non-expert. What I know, is that Handel generally wrote a lot of melismas while Rossini wrote a lot of coloratura. The two composers' vocal styles do sound different to me, but it would really help if a vocal expert spelled out exactly what that difference is. Thanks. DavidRF (talk) 21:06, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I also wouldn't call it "cheap," but it's an essentially different term when used in pop music - difference between a compositional technique and a vocal technique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.44.89 (talk) 16:31, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Better example?

A better example might be Adeste fideles, the carol "O come all ye faithful" - the last verse of this carol ("Sing, choirs of angels...") has a well-known harmony line.The melody is strictly syllabic, the harmony is strongly melismatic. The contrast between the two, if shown in sheet music form, would give a clear indication of the difference between the two styles. Grutness...wha? 11:13, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Origin of the word?

It would be nice if the article discussed the origin of the word. I can't help but notice the phonetic resemblance to miasma (as defined in Merriam-Webster), although I suppose it may not be scrupulously NPOV to remark about that. —BarrelProof (talk) 05:55, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

From the OED 3rd ed.:

< German Melisma (in a letter of 1831 by Felix Mendelssohn) < Hellenistic Greek μέλισμα song, air, melody < ancient Greek μέλος song, melody (see melos n.) + -ισμα (see -ism suffix). Compare French mélisme (1837), and earlier melismatic adj.

Without really thinking about it I'd always imagined it to be related to honey (Latin mel), as if melismatic singing somehow reflects the texture of honey. False etymology on my part. Miasma is not from melos but a different Greek root, meaning stain or defilement, so I think that's straightforward coincidence. 82.32.186.24 (talk) 07:06, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Seems I was getting confused with "mellifluous", which can be used to describe singing and certainly is related to honey. 82.32.186.24 (talk) 17:11, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

The discussion here drifted from the original suggestion to add the etymology. I agree with the original suggestion. I've added it. Omc (talk) 17:16, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Asian....as in?

On the listing of cultures that feature melisma in their music, "Asian music" is listed however I think this is too general a term (Asia is a very big continent), plus "Asian" overlaps with the listing of Arabic, "Middle Eastern" (another general term used too often by English-speakers) and also overlaps with Arabic), and Indian (which is politicized in Wikipedia; it should be "South Asian music" but there is no page). Any suggestions on changing the list? Xerces1492 (talk) 08:50, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Melisma in Jethro Tull/Prog Rock?

I added a couple of examples from more modern music (specifically, Jethro Tull), but I suspect there are more examples in prog rock. I don't know if the "Yodeling" passage from Hocus Pocus's song "Focus" qualifies, but that's another possible example. 2602:306:CEC8:5760:74A6:C828:FDA0:9F3E (talk) 20:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC) (Unregistered Anon.)

new example

a very good example coming from modern music is Tori Amos' Crucify - I think the syllable chains in the chorus stretches on around 10 notes. somebody with better musicianship may make this into a paragraph — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.27.71.116 (talk) 19:33, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Another good example, in my mind, would be Aaron Neville. His singing on My Brother's Keeper and Yellow Moon (A Change is Gonna Come, Yellow Moon, Bird on a Wire, etc.), along with other recordings, evidence this "style". I hesitate to add his name to the short list in the article due to the concern for it spiraling out of control, but he would definitely be worthy of inclusion. Thoughts?THX1136 (talk) 15:02, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Great examples are in Handel's Messiah, such as the Aleleula Chorus, familiar to singers. -- AstroU (talk) 14:43, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely, Handel's Messiah is a perfect example, but also lots and lots of OPERA, how can this article mention Whitney Houston, but ignore the use of melisma in Opera, where it has been used extensively from the very beginning, since the extreme melisma of Possente Spirto from l'Orfeo. Operatic arias are some of the most melismatic singing there is. Has been for 400 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.104.41.248 (talk) 13:22, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

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Jesus Christ Is Ris'n Today example

Surely '-day' is only melismatic in the treble clef? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.200.7.72 (talk) 18:47, 28 December 2021 (UTC)