Talk:Melodic percussion instrument

Celesta

Is the celesta a melodic percussion instrument? It's not normally considered a keyboard percussion instrument (perhaps strangely), but this is a broader category of instrument. Andrewa (talk) 02:19, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/percussions/celesta/an_overview_of_yamaha_celestas/?mode=model retrieved 13 March 2012: Although treated as a member of the percussion section in orchestral terms, the celesta is played by a pianist, the part being normally written on two bracketed staves. Andrewa (talk) 12:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Refactor

As part of a refactor I have removed A melodic percussion instrument produces notes by striking it with sticks or hands, and can produce musical scales. This type of instruments comprises a set of tongues, bars, tubes or plates of solid materials like wood, metal, plastic, ceramic or glass. Each component is pitched to a certain note. This text would eliminate both steel drum and hand bells, for example, and doesn't seem to add anything.

I'm looking for references to quote regarding the definition... this isn't a reliable source but is at least an example of popular usage of the term. This is perhaps a better one.

Aha! http://www.musicaviva.com.au/vivazone/musicians/musician.asp?id=38 the steel drum, a melodic percussion instrument from Trinidad and Tobago is I think a reliable source. Andrewa (talk) 16:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Collections of instruments

From my user talk page [1] (and the heads-up is appreciated): The handbell is not a melodic percussion instrument. It can not produce a melody. --Opus88888 (talk) 12:09, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

But the state in which you left the article [2] doesn't make sense to me. Have you played handbells, or the angklung? I have played both, and the instruments are in many ways similar. Note the lead to the handbell article says in part handbells are generally heard in tuned sets [3].

There are differences. With the angklung it is best if each player has only one note as both hands are needed to do the trill properly, whereas with the handbell you can have one in each hand, and skilled players play four at once.

But each is a collection of instruments, played by several players. I note that you haven't removed this line completely.

Chime bars would be another example of this, see right, but these are mallet percussion and can be played by one player (or by several... I have done both). Functionally, very much like a glockenspiel but with wooden resonators.

Interested in your comments. Andrewa (talk) 13:52, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Pending a reply I have added an image of the angklung [4]. IMO the article isn't now quite as good as it was [5] before your latest edit, the image of the hand bells was a better one than the current one, and the three images (and the list) previously gave a more representative view of melodic percussion. But we haven't lost very much.

And I certainly don't want to simply revert. You've made a lot of good contributions and I'm trying hard to get more people involved in WikiProject Percussion, of which you are one of the few active members. We certainly don't want to lose or discourage you, and we both have better things to do.

Please discuss. You cite James Blades as your source [6], and it's an excellent reference... can you improve it by actually quoting his definition in the reference? If you could, this would also help to clarify the position with respect to the #Celesta (see above). Andrewa (talk) 21:37, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I began this article for standard melodic percussion. Actually, every rhythmic percussion can be converted into a melodic instrument. If you bring together cowbells of different pitches, you would have a melodic cowbell set. You could even create a güiro set. It is not usual to see handbells playing melodies, I'm probably misinformed. --Opus88888 (talk) 01:54, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I was actually skeptical when I ran across the article, I had not heard the term before, I've just called it tuned percussion which is a slightly broader term, and observe that others call it pitched percussion. But a little research revealed that it's a common term. The next question was, for what exactly?

The handbell article certainly seems to describe them as used melodically, and this is the only musical use I've ever seen made of them. And in this context I have even played them myself.

But yes, the question of tuned or untuned is not as simple as I used to think. The bell of a ride cymbal typically produces a very bell-like note when struck with the shoulder of the drumstick, and which I personally use a great deal for crescendos, but in a purely "untuned" application. I'm not sure I agree with everythng said at triangle (instrument), it is normally used as untuned percussion but to me it produces a very distinct note, and I have seen many that are even stamped with their pitch class.

I believe you could even play melody on a set of snare drums suitably tuned and have long wished to demonstrate this (and perhaps upload the result to YouTube).

The current article is an important contribution to Wikipedia's coverage of the general topic I think, and I hope that we can improve it still further. And an article (not just a redirect to a section) at say tuned and untuned percussion is also needed IMO. Andrewa (talk) 09:44, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I didn't know in USA you use handbells for melodic lines. I found this example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkWSoETn9tA

So you are correct with including it in the melodic group. --Opus88888 (talk) 17:08, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

It is not just in the USA... I am in Australia.

But that's good, it clears the way to add images such as this one to the article (yes, this one is from the USA) showing various ways of playing melodic percussion of the three types. Andrewa (talk) 20:19, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Merge to pitched percussion

This is an unnecessary content fork that really isn't supported by any source that I've come across (even by the ones mentioned earlier on the talk page or deletion discussion). There is no source that clearly delineates a melodic percussion instrument versus a pitched/tuned percussion instrument. John H. Beck's book doesn't mention the term, and any other source, including James Blades' book, just uses it as a synonym for pitched/keyboard/tuned percussion, depending on the context. As it stands, this page serves as an editor's preferred organology system. Why? I Ask (talk) 02:33, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I oppose the merge. I have had vast experience in percussion. There’s a difference between pitched and melodic in terms of application and purpose. A perfect example is a bass drum. It is pitched, but it doesn’t create a melody. Usually there’s only one bass drum in the song, but sometimes it matters whether the pitch matches or coalesces with the pitches of other instruments. A steel drum or xylophone is different because it has several different precise notes that can played for a specific melody with specific different tones. Another example is in a drumline, the quads are pitched but not really melodic. In high school drumlines, the quads aren’t usually tuned to be certain notes, there’s just super high, high, low, super low. That’s pitched but not melodic, because drum cadences don’t have any melody, just a beat. Mrbeastmodeallday (talk) 07:37, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

When something is referred to as "pitched" percussion it refers to the function the instrument, not necessarily if it can play a note of definite pitch (otherwise, instruments like snare drum, cowbell, and even cymbals would be always considered pitched percussion, which obviously isn't the case). In other words, it describes whether or not the instrument has specific pitches written for it. For example, car horns have pitches but are still usually considered non-pitched, because no one specifies that it plays a certain note. However, their use in An American in Paris designates certain pitches, making them a pitched instrument. Another example would be cowbells, which are usually considered non-pitched; yet, there have been sets of fully chromatic cowbells. You actually defined what pitched percussion is when you tried to define melodic percussion! Secondly, drum cadences can have clear melodies. One of the most famous cadences in recent history, "Jig 2", consists of playing "Mary Had a Little Lamb". Bass and tenor drums usually have a clear intervalic relationship that can be (and is) taken advantage of by writers. Lastly, Wikipedia doesn't go based on merit. No one cares if you claim to have experience in the field (unless you're an actual expert editor). Why? I Ask (talk) 07:55, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

If no one else can provide any rationale or sourcing to assert standalone notability for this page being separate, then I'm going to go ahead an make the merge. Why? I Ask (talk) 00:36, 11 May 2022 (UTC)