Talk:Mercenary War/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Harrias (talk · contribs) 10:18, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

I'll take a look at this shortly. Harrias ^talk 10:18, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks. Note the non-liquid-related use of "poured". Gog the Mild (talk) 10:17, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Right, where's that quick fail template... Harrias ^talk 10:18, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

References

• All appear reliable.
• Be consistent about whether the location is listed or not: "Collins, Roger (1998)" does not include it, but "Hau, Lisa (2016)" does, for example.

Fixed, bar encyclopaedias and journals, where it is not normal to include them.

• "Hoyos 2015, p. 102." points to "Hoyos, Dexter (2015) [2011].", which unlike the others from that source, does not include chapter details. It looks to me that it is in Chapter 6: Polybius and the Punic Wars, by Craige B. Champion?

Absolutely correct. I had gone for the editor and not the chapter author. (The editor does contribute several chapters.) Thanks for picking it up. Corrected.

• "Scullard, H.H. (2006) [1989]." has flagged up with an error: "|first3= missing |last3=".

I know. I have no idea why; everything is correct and clicks through. Fixed.

I will complete some spotchecks on facts as I work through the article. More to follow. Harrias ^talk 11:00, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Pour it on. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:59, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Background

• Switch the link to "Mediterranean" to the first use.

Done.

• "..300 kilometres (190 mi) to the south-west." To the south-west of what? Carthage, or their current boundaries?

Done.

• It would be useful somewhere to specify in the article where Carthage was; to give an idea of where the centre of their power was.

I have "Tunis, 16 kilometres (10 mi) from Carthage" in "Background". Would you like me to pull this up earlier? Or to make it more explicit? Or both?

If it could be mentioned earlier, that would be grand. Harrias ^talk 14:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Done.

• "Libyans provided close-order infantry equipped with large shields, helmets, short swords and long thrusting spears and close-order shock cavalry carrying spears.." The "..and long thrusting spears and close-order shock cavalry" threw me off here; can this sentence be split or written for clarity?

"Libyans provided close-order infantry equipped with large shields, helmets, short swords and long thrusting spears; as well as close-order shock cavalry carrying spear" That do?

That works for me. Harrias ^talk 14:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

• Is "staying power" encyclopaedic language?

Quite seriously, I don't see why not. Although I am open to any other suggestions which convey the message. You know how your mind gets jammed on a single way of expressing something.

I can live with it. Harrias ^talk 14:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

• "light infantry skirmishers" is getting a bit jargon-heavy without a wikilink.

I thought that I had already linked "skirmisher"; it must have got lost in the editing. Now linked, and "light infantry".

• "The Carthaginian authorities decided to instead wait until all of the troops had arrived and then attempt to negotiate a settlement at a lower rate." Well, this doesn't seem a recipe for disaster at all. Sit an army inside your city, and then try and screw them over. No review comment here. Unless I'm reviewing their tactics, in which case I might start looking for that quick fail template again.

A triumph of petty politics over practicality, and they paid the price. Obviously, not something that ever happens in our enlightened modern times.

• "Freed of their long discipline.." What do you mean by "long discipline"? Is this shorthand for "long years of discipline"?

Possibly. Fixed. (The source gets quite excited about "carnal appetites".)

• "The pay dispute had become a full-scale revolt threatening Carthage's existence as a state." I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

It does seem like something Blackadder stole from Baldrick, doesn't it?

War

• "..the rebels had already blockaded Utica and Hippo.." Do we have any idea why the rebels targeted Utica and Hippo, given they had previously been in Tunis?

Nope. Nothing in the sources. (At a pure guess, inter-city rivalry from the now majority Africans among the rebels. A bit like the Cornish rising up, and the first thing they want to do is march on Exeter. But that is strictly OR.)

• "..without a ransom being required, they were immediately.." Preference: switch "they" to "and".

Done.

• Wikilink Hiero II of Syracuse, assuming that's the right chap.

It is. Thank you.

• "In late 140 or early 139 BC.." 240/239?

Grr!

• "When it arrived its members also mutinied, joined the previous mutineers, and killed all of the Carthaginians on the island." Well, of course they did.

A triumph of hope over experience. Would you believe that there is scholarly debate as to why the Carthaginians lost the Punic Wars?

• Is it the Battle of "The Saw", per our article, or Battle of the Saw, per this article?

I see no reason for "The". Not in any of five sources which name the battle. No idea what the original creator was thinking of, but things were different in 2006.

It works for me. I've carried out the appropriate changes to the other article. Harrias ^talk 14:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

• "The rebels, rather than wait to be besieged met the.." Comma after besieged.

Done.

• "..mid- to late 238 BC." Complete the hyphenation here.

Done. (I guessed that you meant 'late-238 BC', although this is an unusual construction. I was using a hanging hyphen per MOS:HANGING.

I had actually meant "mid-to-late", but on reflection, this works better without them at all I think. Harrias ^talk 14:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

• "..while Mathos was dragged.." Typo.

Thanks. Referred to as Mathos in some sources.

Doesn't surprise me. They couldn't deal with basic military strategy; spelling was probably well beyond them. Harrias ^talk 14:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

• "..their out expedition.." Out? Own?

Probably. Fixed.

• "..and the outrageous extra indemnity.." This POV statement needs attribution.

I assume you mean in line. Deleted, as I want to keep the aftermath pithy.

Images

• Can File:Guerra mercenaria.png be cropped to remove the foreign language text from the bottom.

Done.

Overall, nice interesting work. Harrias ^talk 13:28, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Harrias. Your comments addressed above. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:30, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

A couple of quick replies, but nothing major. Will pass GA, as it meets the guidelines with or without them. Harrias ^talk 14:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks again Harrias, swift service. One amendment made, but I don't see what you are driving at re the hyphens. (I don't actually see what was wrong with the original - there is, on checking, an identical usage in one of the sources.) Could you make the appropriate edit? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:21, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

I would typically only use a hanging hyphen for something like "mid- to long-range". However, on looking through the old internet, it appears what you wrote originally is probably right. Go back to that, and ignore me. Harrias ^talk 15:31, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Well, only if you insist. You mean, like, completely? Gog the Mild (talk) 15:54, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

You watch it, or I'll go through and trim down the article until it only has the bare bones left!! Harrias ^talk 15:58, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

I have come up with a couple of interesting DYKs - Template:Did you know nominations/Mercenary War. Be interesting to see what the folk there make of them. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:34, 30 March 2020 (UTC)