Talk:Mersea Island/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Biblioworm (talk · contribs) 16:29, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• Review  In progress. --Biblioworm 16:29, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: Here is my review:

• Is the article well-written? -
  • West Mersea can be further divided into the Old City to the southwest, which serves the fishing and yachting industries and contains a number of listed buildings,[11] the centre containing the church of St Peter and St Paul, and the beach and esplanade.
    • A comma between "centre" and "containing" would make the sentence look better. Also, I've noticed an inconsistency when referring to the church of St Peter and St Paul. Sometimes, "and" is used, and other times, an ampersand is used. "Church" should also be capitalized.

Hang on, are you sure, that would leave only two words between commas. The earlier comma can be removed. MOS:COMMA says "Modern practice is against excessive use of commas; there are usually ways to simplify a sentence so that fewer are needed." so we should aim for that. The name in sources is split between "and" and "&" but I've gone with "&" for brevity. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Disagree. A comma there would make the sentence more confusing by implying that "the centre" is its own thing. I think the sentence is a bit confusing though. Perhaps this would be better: "West Mersea can be further divided into three sections: the Old City to the southwest (which serves the fishing and yachting industries and contains a number of listed buildings),[11] the centre containing the church of St Peter and St Paul, and the beach and esplanade." ‑Scottywong| talk _ 17:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Usually, when you've got a comma under contention, the sentence benefits from being rewritten. I've redone this and split it into two sentences. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• • The name 'Mersea' is derived from the Old English meresig meaning 'island of the pool'.
    • Add "word" between "English" and "meresig".

Done Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • The Company Shed restaurant on the west side of the island serves seafood fresh to order[17] and has been praised for its quality by Jamie Oliver.
    • Could "seafood fresh to order" simply be changed to "fresh seafood"?

"fresh to order" has a particular meaning. It means you can go into the restaurant, ask for fresh haddock and get it there and then, while you can go into your local Tesco and ask for "fresh haddock" you can get it from their stocks and take it away. Slightly different emphasis. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • Many small shops and ice cream business serve the tourism on Mersea's beaches, include the Two Sugars Cafe which sits in a former World War II pillbox.
    • Change "business" to "businesses", and add a comma between "Cafe" and "which".

D'oh, fixed. But for the same reason above per MOS:COMMA, a comma would jar reading. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion, you've got two options here: either add a comma between "Cafe" and "which", or change "which" to "that". The rule that I have always gone by in these situations is that "which" requires a preceding comma whereas "that" does not. It depends on whether you consider it to be a restrictive or non-restrictive clause. I believe it is non-restricting, and therefore should use "which" with a comma. ‑Scottywong| soliloquize _ 17:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

As before, I've gone with two separate sentences and reworded. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• • There are three camping and caravanning sites on the island, which help contribute towards the island's economy during the summer months. The largest is Cooper's Beach, which caters for 3,000 residents.
    • Change "for" to "to".

Done. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • There is evidence of pre-Roman settlement on Mersea in the form of "red hills" which are the remains of Celtic salt workings.
    • Add comma between "hills" and "which".

Not done, MOS:COMMA again

In my opinion, you've got two options here: either add a comma between "hills" and "which", or change "which" to "that". ‑Scottywong| talk _ 17:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm happy with going for the second option. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• • In 1730, a large mosaic floor was found underneath the Church of St Peter and St Paul at West Mersea, while in 1764, Richard Gough discovered further evidence of Roman remains around the church.
    • Change to "In 1730, a large mosaic floor was found underneath the Church of St Peter and St Paul at West Mersea; in 1764, Richard Gough discovered further evidence of Roman remains around the church."

I've gone for "and" instead Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • The Strood causeway was also built by the Saxons; oak piles discovered in 1978[27] have been dated by dendrochronology to between 684 and 702.
    • Move "by dendrochronology" to the end of the sentence, and then changes "by" to "using".

Done Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • In the early 19th century, the increased demand for oysters despite a limited supply from the Strood and Pyefleet Channel led traders to get oysters from other places and pass them off as native to the island.
    • Add comma between "oysters" and "despite" and between "Channel" and "led".

MOS:COMMA again Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Agree, neither comma is required here. ‑Scottywong| talk _ 17:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• • A police officer for the island was appointed in 1844, and in 1871 a school was opened.
    • Move "in 1871" to the end of the sentence.

Done Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • Troops were stationed at Mersea Island during war.
    • Add "the" between "during" and "war".

Mistake - fixed. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • In 1926, West Mersea became a self-governing urban district, which allowed it to set up its own mains water and sewerage scheme.
    • The phrase "mains water and sewerage scheme" is a bit awkward. I'd change it to something like "water and sewerage system".

I've gone with "a self-contained water and sewer system" Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • A battery of 4.7 inch guns were installed along the beach along with a Battery Observation post and a number of searchlights and pillboxes.
    • Since this is referring to "A battery" (singular form), "were" should be "was".

Done Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • On 4 June 2012, as part of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee celebrations, the island declared a mock independence from the UK for that day. Anyone travelling to the island across the Strood paid 50p for a "passport", the proceeds of which went towards the war veteran charity Help for Heroes.
    • Change "travelling" to "traveling". Unless "travelling" is the way the British spell it. (I'm American, so I really don't know.)

It is "travelling". Don't worry, my partner is from the US; what a stupid word "bonnet" is to describe what covers a car's engine, "hood" is much better Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • Mersea Island School is a Foundation primary school in West Mersea with 450 pupils aged 4–11, with an additional nursery for 52 children from 2–4.[47] The school was built by Horace Darken in 1871-2, with additional classrooms in 1897.
    • Add a comma between "Mersea" and the first "with", and change the second "with" to "and". Add "added" between "classrooms" and "in", as well.

I've gone for two sentences instead. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • The island is home to Mersea Island F.C. who compete in the Essex and Suffolk Border Football League Division 1.
    • Add comma between "F.C." and "who".

MOS:COMMA Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree with the reviewer here, a comma is required. ‑Scottywong| talk _ 17:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I'll put that one in, but while I'm here I've not really been happy about a section with only two sentences, so I've merged "Sport" with "Culture" as that seems to be the best home for it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• • This carries the Mersea–Colchester road (B1025) which is often covered at high tides and especially during spring tides.
    • Add comma between "(B1025)" and "which".

MOS:COMMA Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Agree with the reviewer again, a comma is required. ‑Scottywong| talk _ 17:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I've redone this sentence. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• • During the 1953 North Sea flood, the Strood was submerged under over 6 feet (2 m) of water, cutting off access from the mainland.
    • Change "from" to "to".

Done Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • The island is used as a setting for several works of Margery Allingham who spent childhood holidays on the island.
    • Add comma between "Allingham" and "who".

MOS:COMMA Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Agree with reviewer, comma is required. ‑Scottywong| talk _ 17:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I can't think of a better way of wording this so comma it is

• • These included her first novel, Blackkerchief Dick published in 1923 when she was 19, and Mystery Mile (though the plot is disguised as being in Suffolk).
    • Add coma between "Dick" and "published".

MOS:COMMA Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Parentheses would be preferable to a comma here, in my opinion. "These included her first novel, Blackkerchief Dick (published in 1923 when she was 19), and Mystery Mile..." ‑Scottywong| talk _ 17:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, brackets sounds like the best option here. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• • Mehalah is a novel set in Mersea by Baring-Gould.
    • Change to "Mehalah is a novel set in Mersea, written by Baring-Gould".

I've done with "Baring-Gould's novel Mehalah is set in Mersea." Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• • The most celebrated event is the Round-the-Island race where dinghies attempt to sail all the way around the island in either direction, helped over the Strood by volunteers.
    • Add comma between "race" and "where".

MOS:COMMA Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Agree with reviewer, comma is required here. May want to also consider changing "where" to "in which". ‑Scottywong| talk _ 17:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Done, though my "length sentence" alarm went off so I trimmed it a bit. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• Is the article verifiable with no original research? - Yes.
• Is the article broad in its coverage? - Yes.
• Is the article neutral? - Yes.
• Is the article stable? - Yes.
• Is the article illustrated? - Yes.

• Result:  On hold until the grammar issues are fixed. --Biblioworm 22:58, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

I've looked at all the issues and fixed the ones I agree with. I'll get a second opinion about the commas. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Very well. I'll look over the article right now. I tend to use quite a bit of commas in daily life, so it's probably just a personal thing... --Biblioworm 19:21, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

One usual rule on commas is that relative clauses (for instance introduced by who, which, or where) are set off between commas when they are supplementary (also known as "non-restrictive" or "non-defining") as opposed to defining (also known as "restrictive" or "integrated"). This rule is usually extended to similar constructions to indicate whether a phrase is supplementary or integral. If MOS:COMMA suggests being parsimonious with commas it might be helpful if it also referred to this rule, to prevent editors being over-niggardly with commas. --Boson (talk) 20:23, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I think the actual main spirit of MOS:COMMA is to consider alternative phrasing as the best option before deciding whether a comma really is justified. Which is what I've tried to do here in several instances. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: Thanks for your improvements. The article looks better. I've found a few more minor things:

• • Mersea Island is an island in Essex, England, in the Blackwater and Colne estuaries to the south-east of Colchester. Its name comes from the Old English meresig, meaning "island of the pool".
    • Add "word" between "English" and "meresig".
  • The church of St Peter & St Paul in West Mersea is thought to have existed since the 7th century, while the church of St Edmund in East Mersea dates from around the 12th or 13th.
    • Capitalize "church".
  • Many small shops and ice cream businesses serve the tourism on Mersea's beaches, include the Two Sugars Cafe which sits in a former World War II pillbox.
    • Change "include" to "including".
  • Some locals supplemented their income from the oyster trade by smuggling, which remained popular until the mid 19th century.
    • Perhaps there should be a dash between "mid" and "19th".
  • By the end of the 19th century, the land around the island had been partially reclaimed, allowing for easier access.
    • "For" is probably unnecessary.
  • Mersea Island School is a Foundation primary school in West Mersea with 450 pupils aged 4–11.
    • I don't think "Foundation" should be capitalized.

These are relatively minor issues, and it really isn't worth delaying this review because of them, so I'll Pass (you should still fix the errors, of course). Good work! --Biblioworm 02:54, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

You're a more charitable man than me, I'd have waited until everything was resolved, but I've done the above issues. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:19, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

When I was young, I was always taught to add a comma before a "sentence connector" (and, but, for, who, which, etc.). --Biblioworm 18:24, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

As I've hinted in the past, Eric flies the flag for comma conservatism - some possible further info Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)