Talk:Mervyn Dymally

Indian, African, both?

I got to this page from the Indo-Trinidadian page. This page says that he's African American and a person of Indian origin. Is he of mixed race? It's a bit confusing as is. --Jfruh 01:53, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes. His father was Indo-Trinidadian, his mother, as far as I remember, was mixed Afro-Trinidadian and Venezuelan. His grandfather (granparents, I guess) was from India. He is, of course, an American citizen, former head of the black caucus, so of course he is African American. Guettarda 14:02, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Dymally was not the first ....

Please get your facts straight,

Neither Mervyn Dymally (D-CA) nor Bobby Jindal (R-LA) are the "first person of Indian origin" to serve in the U. S. Congress -- that was Dalip Singh Saund (D-CA) who served 1957-1963.

Thanks for the info. I read everywhere the Jindal was (academic journals and all) and I knew Dymally pre-dated him... Guettarda 19:58, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Page name

I'm curious as to why this page was moved here, from "Mervyn Dymally" - is he better known as Mervyn M. Dymally than Mervyn Dymally? Unless that is the case, according to the naming convention the page should be there rather than here. Guettarda 03:02, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

First term in Assembly

This page makes no mention of Dymally's first term in the California State Assembly from 1962-1966. Would someone with more time like to research the succession box info? I don't know who preceded or succeeded him or anything about California 60's politics. Thanks... gohlkus 00:14, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

White?

On the multiracial people list, he is also cited as being part white. [1] Is this true? Michael 20:00, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It's probable - his mother was Venezuelan mestizo, iirc, so it's probably that she had white and Amerindian, in addition to African ancestry. Of course, that's pure OR, unacceptable in the main namespace without a source. So remove it or tag it with {{fact}} - the onus is on the person adding the information to support the statement. Guettarda 20:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Michael 21:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Jonestown (Massacre) involvement

Jones traveled to Guyana with Lieutenant Governor Mervyn Dymally to meet with Burhnam and Foreign Affairs Minister Fred Willis.[28] In that meeting, Dymally agreed to pass on the message to the U.S. State Department that socialist Guyana wanted to keep an open door to cooperation with the United States.[28] Dymally followed up that meeting with a letter to Burnham stating that Jones was "one of the finest human beings" and that Dymally was "tremendously impressed" by his visit to Jonestown.[28] 12.233.182.226 (talk) 20:33, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I added some text describing this but some Dymally fan apparently doesn't like this uncomfortable fact, the most (in)famous event of his life so far, and deleted it.Flegelpuss (talk) 07:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a fan, but this information is being used to denigrate his character against WP:BLP. If you have a good source about Dymally that covers it, then I agree it should be added. Find one. Not one about Jim Jones, one about Dymally. The way you are currently adding it is deceptive, and others like you have attempted to do this with other articles, such as Harvey Milk. You may want to look at that article to see how consensus was formed to depict the history with balance and accuracy. Viriditas (talk) 08:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

This is a ridiculous accusation. My purpose, and presumably the purpose of the above commenter, is to document the most famous event of this person's life, not to denigrate him, and my source was unimpeachable. Closer to the truth to say that your purpose in deleting my careful edit was to keep highly notable and verified facts that are embarassing to politicians you favor out of Wikipedia. The idea that it has to come from a source specifically about Dymally's life, rather than a source about the event that includes Dymally's role, is nonsense. And, BTW, if you want to engage people in discussion try being civil instead of making wild accusations.Flegelpuss (talk) 08:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry you dislike it, but it reads like poisoning the well, and looking at your contribution history, there is a pattern. You seem to be going from article to article, adding negative information about BLP's. Of course, if you have an actual reference about Dymally (not Jones, Dymally) and it meets the RS guideline, then let's use it. And if you are here to contribute constructively, I would be very interested in seeing your article creations, etc. As for this being Dymally's "most (in)famous event of his life", if that is indeed true, then you should be able to find biographical sources about him that describe this incident. Viriditas (talk) 08:37, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

You are misusing "poisoning the well", which refers to putting with undue weight negative information in the lead. That is not what I did here. My edit was a new section down in the article. And of course, my reference was in fact about Dymally. And no, my editing history does not indicate what you have said. Like I asked before, please be civil.Flegelpuss (talk) 06:06, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Nothing is being misused. You need to stop adding negative information that does not appear in biographical treatments of the subject, and follow up with my request to find biographical sources showing it is important. Look for newspapers, scholarly papers, and books about Dymally. Cherry picking information from a book about Jim Jones to make Dymally look bad goes against BLP. Find more sources to support your content. Viriditas (talk) 09:57, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

There are several problems with the section.

1. Dymally attended a dinner with Jones - sourced to Layton; "socialist" rather than "religious" commune? Why not "leader of the People's Temple"?
2. Travels to Guyana to tour "Jones' compound"? Not "to tour Jonestown"? Sourced to Reiterman and Jacobs. Juxtaposition of different sources is troubling.
3. "In that meeting" Dymally agreed to pass on a message on behalf of Guyana? Jones is speaking for Burnham? Dubious. Why would Dymally, a Trinidadian, communicate with Burnham through Jones?
4. Followed up with a letter to Burnham praising Jones. Politician writes a letter on behalf of a constituent? Stop the Presses!
5. Two years later, Jonestown massacre. Two years?

Overall, the section is far from a neutral presentation of the facts. "Socialist commune". "Socialist Guyana". Problematic in the presentation of negative information in a BLP. Second, the narrative just doesn't add up. Third, the information seems cherry picked. There's no unity of the narrative. Finally, you need page numbers for the sources. Only way someone can verify what you're saying.

And then there's Viriditas' concern. Find additional sources, sources about Dymally. One book, about Jones, not Dymally, published 27 years ago, does not make a strong case for inclusion. Guettarda (talk) 13:46, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

RIP Mervyn M. Dymally

http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2012/10/former-ca-lt-gov-mervyn-dymally-dies-at-86.html // Internet Esquire (talk) 05:15, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

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