Talk:Metapolitefsi/Archive 2

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Archive 1

Archive 2

RfC: Is the article encyclopedically written?

Latest comment: 9 years ago11 comments4 people in discussion

I do not know what the opinion of the community is, but my personal opinion is that this is not an encyclopedic article. It is written like an essay, from a non-neutral point of view and in emotional language. The Deus ex machina section, for example, compares the Greek political scene of the 1970s to Ancient Greek drama. This might be excellent for a Political Science thesis, but it is not suitable for an encyclopaedia article. Also, the fact that it is sourced does not really matter, because the (certainly reliable) sources are very subjective.--The Traditionalist (talk) 11:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

but my personal opinion is that this is not an encyclopedic article. It is written like an essay, from a non-neutral point of view and in emotional language. I disagree. The article is very well written and is neutral, factual and extremely well cited. Your sweeping statements are not supported by any examples other than the Catharsis section which is very well supported by RS as well. Further, your last edit indiscriminately removed the section "Prelude to Catharsis" which contained factual and well-cited information about the events that led to Karamanlis being invited back to Greece and about his eventual return. You may have disagreed with the section title but it seems you did not check properly what you were removing. These facts are central to Metapolitefsi and your edit removed them all. Such removal of central facts from an article is not constructive. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 18:02, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

To be exact you removed this whole section, in addition to the "Catharsis" one:

Prelude to catharsis Following the Cyprus invasion by the Turks, the dictators finally abandoned Ioannides and his policies. On 23 July 1974, President Gizikis called a meeting of old guard politicians, including Panagiotis Kanellopoulos, Spyros Markezinis, Stephanos Stephanopoulos, Evangelos Averoff and others. The heads of the armed forces also participated in the meeting. The agenda was to appoint a national unity government with the mandate to lead the country to elections and at the same time to honourably extricate Greece from an armed confrontation with Turkey.<ref name="Karamanlis Time"/><ref name="Past Present, 22 July 2005"/> Former Prime Minister Panagiotis Kanellopoulos was originally suggested as the head of the new interim government. He was the legitimate Prime Minister originally deposed by the dictatorship and a distinguished veteran politician who had repeatedly criticized Papadopoulos and his successor. Raging battles were still taking place in Cyprus' north and Greece's border with Turkey in Thrace was tense when Greeks took to the streets in all the major cities, celebrating the junta's decision to relinquish power before the war in Cyprus could spill all over the Aegean.<ref name="Karamanlis Time"/><ref name="Past Present, 22 July 2005"/> But talks in Athens were going nowhere with Gizikis' offer to Panayiotis Kanellopoulos to form a government.<ref name="Past Present, 22 July 2005"/> Nonetheless, after all the other politicians departed without reaching a decision, Evangelos Averoff remained in the meeting room. He telephoned Karamanlis in Paris to appraise him of the developments and urge him to return to Greece, and, following the call, further engaged Gizikis.<ref name="Mario Modiano"/> He insisted that Constantine Karamanlis, prime minister of Greece from 1955 to 1963, was the only political personality who could lead a successful transition government, taking into consideration the new circumstances and dangers both inside and outside the country. Gizikis and the heads of the armed forces initially expressed reservations, but they finally became convinced by Averoff's arguments.<ref name="Past Present, 22 July 2005"/> Admiral Arapakis was the first, among the participating military leaders, to express his support for Karamanlis. After Averoff's decisive intervention, Gizikis phoned Karamanlis at his Paris apartment and begged him to return.<ref name="Karamanlis Time"/> Karamanlis initially hesitated but Gizikis pledged to him that the military would no longer interfere in the political affairs of Greece.<nowiki><ref name="Gizikis NYT">[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E2DF1531F933A05754C0A96F958260 New York Times] obituary Phaidon Gizikis, '73 Greek Junta Officer, 82 30 July 1999 Retrieved 18 August 2008</ref> Other junta members joined Gizikis in his pledge.<ref name="Gizikis NYT"/>Throughout his stay in France, Karamanlis was a thorn at the side of the junta because he possessed the credibility and popularity they lacked both in Greece and abroad and he also criticized them very often.<ref name="Karamanlis Time"/> Now he was called to end his self-imposed exile and restore Democracy to the place that originally created it.<ref name="Past Present, 22 July 2005"/>Upon news of his impending arrival cheering Athenian crowds took to the streets chanting: "Ερχεται! Ερχεται!" "Here he comes! Here he comes!"<ref name="Past Present, 22 July 2005"/> Similar celebrations broke out all over Greece. Athenians in the tens of thousands also went to the airport to greet him.<ref name="Karamanlis Time"/><ref name="Nick Michaelian">Nick Michaelian, [http://replay.web.archive.org/20071106142525/http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.print_unique?e=C&f=13075&m=A04&aa=1&eidos=A "The real unsung heroes"], ''Athens News'', 16 July 2004. Thousands went to the airport to greet him., page: A04 Article code: C13075A041 via the Internet Archive</ref> On 23 July 1974 Karamanlis returned to Athens on the French President's Mystère 20 jet made available to him by President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing,<ref name="Karamanlis Time"/> a close personal friend, and was sworn-in as Prime Minister under President Phaedon Gizikis who remained temporarily in power for legal continuity reasons.<ref name="On This Day">[http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/23/newsid_2515000/2515819.stm BBC News] On This Day Retrieved 20 July 2008</ref> Despite being faced with an inherently unstable and dangerous political situation, which forced him to sleep aboard a yacht watched over by a naval destroyer for several weeks after his return, Karamanlis moved swiftly to defuse the tension between Greece and Turkey, which came on the brink of war over the Cyprus crisis, and begin the process of transition from military rule to a pluralist democracy.<ref name="David Glass"/>

Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 18:07, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I do not see any relevance between this RfC and that edit of mine you mentioned. What I propose here is to re-write the article, making it more encyclopaedic.--The Traditionalist (talk) 18:47, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

How can you propose an RfC when a) you don't provide diffs as examples to support your assertions that the article is not written in an encyclopedic manner and b) the only example of your editing is one of blanking a central part of the article which is very well cited and written. I wanted to highlight that your lack of diffs and your edit inspire no confidence as to the factual basis for your assertions. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 18:55, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I did not present diffs because I asked from responding users to read the article.--The Traditionalist (talk) 19:08, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough for part a) of my comments above. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 19:12, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Your b) comment suggests that my statements are weakened by the quality of my past editing, while I suggest that the latter is irrelevant, as they are supported by just reading the article.--The Traditionalist (talk) 19:31, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't think you read the article carefully enough to assess it fairly, based on your blanking of a large, central and important part of it which also happens to be very well cited and written. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 19:34, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not seeing much on an RFC here.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 01:18, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

What is this RfC for? I can't tell if this RfC has been used to simply garner attention to the article (which shouldn't be the reasoning, and WikiProject: Peer Review would be more appropriate) or if there is a an actual dispute about the content (which hasn't been made clear, other than an editor's "personal opinion" and a slab of text that is TL;DR with its sizing and length). Please create a carefully thought out RfC statement along the lines of: "This is the current xxxxx, should we change to xxyyy because of [[WP:Policies and Guidelines]]. Attempts have been made to make this change (insert diff links here) and discussion was started here, [[Talk:Example#Section Example]]. What is the better choice for Wiki?" per WP:RfC#Request comment on articles, policies, or other non-user issues and its sections. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 03:41, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Spamming information using unreliable/undue sources across multiple articles

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

An edit-warring account is spamming the following information across multiple articles:

His election campaign motto has been "It's me or the tanks", which some of his opponents saw as a bullying and a manipulative campaign.<ref>Silverman, R. Defiance: Greece and Europe. 2016</ref> The elections were soon followed by the 1974 referendum on whether Greece would restore the Constitutional monarchy or remain a Republic. Karamanlis and his government at that time did not allowed the King to return to Greece to campaign on behalf of the benefits to Greece of the constitutional monarchy. He was only allowed to broadcast one time to the Greek people from London on television. Analysts claim this was a deliberate act by the government to undermine any chance to restore the monarchy.<ref>[http://www.royalchronicles.gr/1974referendumgreece/ R. Cronicles, The Referendum]</ref>

The first source makes the claim His election campaign motto has been "It's me or the tanks", which some of his opponents saw as a bullying and a manipulative campaign. which is an exceptional claim. Aside from the bad grammar, the use of WP:WEASELWORDS like some of his opponents and the fact that this exceptional claim is being edit-warred on with no ISBN number, page number and no quote, as well as without any other sources to back it up, make this a classic case of WP:UNDUE and also very probably WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH. Aside from the fact that the second source is a pro-royalist Greek website, the description Analysts claim this was a deliberate act by the government to undermine any chance to restore the monarchy. is pure WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH junk. The "Analysts who claim" that, is just the pro-royalist website which is a very unreliable source. Edit-warring of this junk across multiple articles must cease otherwise the next step will be WP:ANI. Dr. K. 03:28, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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