Talk:Metropolitan cities of Italy

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Could the 1990 law and the table be put in alphabetical order (unless there is a geographical or other order in the latter).

The 2014 law mentions 10 cities - but there are 14 in the table. Clarification anyone? Jackiespeel (talk) 17:00, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

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Metropolitan council composition

This needs some clarity:

"Members of the Metropolitan council are elected and chosen by mayors and city councillors of each municipality in the metropolitan city."

Is this council also composed of city councillors chosen from each of these municipalities? And if so, how? In that same vein, how is the Metropolitan mayor elected? I've heard that the mayor of the central city is automatically the mayor of the metropolitan city, but in any case, it's not made clear here how the mayor is chosen/elected. --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:23, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@Alessandro57:, @Ita140188: for comment after I was asked by this user to look into this, although I don't know the answer. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 17:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Hallo @Criticalthinker:, @Vaselineeeeeeee:! The metropolitan council is elected by all the mayors and all the city councillors of all the comuni which belong to the metropolitan city (article 25 of the law of the 7 April 2014 , nr. 56). Only mayors and city councillors can be elected in the council. The Metropolitan mayor is - de jure for the art. 19 - the mayor of the administrative center of the metropolitan city (that is, Roma~e for Rome, Milan for Milan, etc.) It is anyway foreseen that in the future mayor and councillors can be elected by the citizen (Art. 22), but until now the state did not pass the bill which will define the electoral law for the metropolitan cities. N.B. Precondition for the direct election is the splitting of the administrative centers in smaller units. Alex2006 (talk) 16:52, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Grazie mille, @Alessandro57:! I have made the appropriate changes to clarify things, and rearranged a few sentences for clarity. I had one additional question just out of general interest. Since the councils are not popularly elected, does their political composition still basically reflect the results of the prior local elections, though? Are the seats generally divided fairly on the metropolitan council? --Criticalthinker (talk) 19:39, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Hallo @Criticalthinker:, glad to have helped! The members of a metropolitan council are all the counselors of all the councils of the comuni which belongs to a metropolitan city. So, I would not say that they are fairly divided, since for example Rome, with its almost 3,000,000 inhabitants, has 64 counselors, while a small comune (with less than 3,000 inhabitants) in the metropolitan city (there are many on the Apennines), has still 10 counselors. Besides that, elections in the small comuni use the majoritarian voting system (The list of the major gets 2/3 of the counselors), and this brings still a strong unbalance. Alex2006 (talk) 15:20, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

@Alessandro57: Actually, reading the law you linked me to it says this:

"20. Il consiglio metropolitano e' composto dal sindaco metropolitano e da: a) ventiquattro consiglieri nelle citta' metropolitane con popolazione residente superiore a 3 milionidi abitanti; b) diciotto consiglieri nelle citta' metropolitane con popolazione residente superiore a 800.000 e inferiore o pari a 3 milioni di abitanti; c) quattordici consiglieri nelle altre citta' metropolitane."

This makes it sound as if not all municipal councillors of every comune are also metropolitan councillors, rather a selection of them. Can you be more clear? If the metropolitan council's composition is only some of the municipal councillors of each comune, who decides how many seats each commune gets in the metropolitan council, and then what the political party composition is of each comunes representation on the metropolitan council? I see the process as described in Paragraphs 26 & 27 of the LEGGE 7 aprile 2014, n. 56 that you posted, but do not understand it. --Criticalthinker (talk) 01:37, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Can someone describe more simply than the law does how elections are held for the metropolitan council and under what kind of electoral system in used? The process is confusing. Is there competing lists for each constituency/municipality or for just the metropolitan city as a whole? Does each counciller and mayor get to vote for a metropolitan list or are they allowed only to vote for the councillers in their municipal constituency? --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:09, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

@Alessandro57:, I think I've figured out the general electoral system of metropolitan cities, so I've rewritten that article. What I need from you is to help me understand paragraphs 32 through 34, which explains the weighting of each vote by population of the comuni, and then also the "Allagato A" explaining the weighting. You could use a metropolitan city as an example of how each vote by a municipal councillor is weighted. --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:42, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Found this which details a recent vote weighting in Venice for the provicinail/metropolitan council, but I'm still not sure of how to calculate it:

https://cittametropolitana.ve.it/sites/default/files/news/Tabella%20indice%20ponderato_10072015.pdf

Do you think you could showing me the math of how this works? What I get is that you first take the population of the populations bands and divide them by the total population of the metropolitan city to get the proportion that the band represents compared to the city as a whole. What throws me off is the next step where you take out the surplus proportion (when it exists), and then redistribute this surplus to the other population bands. I'm not sure how to do this particular part of the calculation to get to the ultimate indice di ponderazione'.--Criticalthinker (talk) 06:50, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Hallo CriticalThinker, and sorry for the delay in answering, but I am being really busy in real and wiki world. :-) Anyway, it is quite easy: there are two repartitions: one for the comuni and one for the bands ("demographic groups").

1) If the first comune has a percentage greater than 45 with respect to metropolitan city, this percentage is capped to 45 and the exceeding part is distributed among all the other bands, in proportion with the population of each band.

2) Then one consider the percentage of each band: if the first band has a percentage higher than 35, this percentage is capped to 35 and the exceeding part is distributed among all the other bands, in proportion with the population of each band.

3)This process is recursive, until each band reach a percentage lower or equal to 35.

4) now that we have partially "capped" percentage, one can compute the indice di ponderazione ("weighting index") of the voters of the comuni in each band. The weighting index of the voters of each comune is the result of dividing the redetermined percentage value of the band to which the comune belongs by the total number of mayors and councillors belonging to the same band, multiplied by 1,000.

Easy, isn't it? And then people wonders why fascism has been invented in Italy. :-) Alex2006 (talk) 16:35, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

@Alessandro57:, no, I was asking specifically how one redistributes the excess percentage over 35% for a band (or 45% if for an commune)? Using an example, how do you dole that out proportionally to the other bands? I feel like it's really simple math, but I can't figure it out. --Criticalthinker (talk) 03:01, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Hallo Criticalthinker, it is quite easy: one normalises to 100 the sum of the population percentages of all the other bands, and distributed the excess percentage among them according to the normalised percentages. Alex2006 (talk) 11:46, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Hallo @Criticalthinker:, homework done! :-)

First the percentages of all the bands except the first are normalized to 100 - 35.780 = 64.22 (total population percentage without 1st band, whose percentage was 35.780).

In this way the second band (16.510 %) has as new percentage (16.510/64.22) = 0.2570 => 25.70%, and its part of the exceeding part of the first band (0.780) is 0.780 * 0.2570 = 0.200, so the new percentage is 16.510 + 0.200 = 16.710 ;

The third band (27.020 %) has as new percentage (27.020/64.22)= 0.4347 => 43.47%, and its part of the exceeding part is 0.780 *0.4347 = 0.339109, so the new percentage is 27.920 + 0.339109 = 28.259 ;

And so on. The rest is trivial. Alex2006 (talk) 16:04, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Map with city names?

Seriously, is it so hard to have a map with the actual city names, you know, on the frakking map?! 71.236.206.225 (talk) 11:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)