Talk:Michel Elefteriades

Notability

Fewer than 800 Google hits and mostly from his own websites Maustrauser 11:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

You have a point, but that only proves that he's not very present online. He's a well known celebrity in Lebanon. Isn't that notable? Jadzilla 11:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Most contemporary notable people have a big on-line presence. regardless , particularly if he has done everything claimed in this article. Where are the references to third parties? See WP:Notability. Maustrauser 11:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

yeah we gotta work on that. i want to try fixing the wording first though. what do you think? Jadzilla 11:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Starting to look better. Keep going! Maustrauser 11:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

This link to an article/interview of him, published yesterday by Egypt's DailyStar http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=5672 Bahaab 12:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

This article is worthless, it is a praise of a person who had his own militia during the Lebanese war. Where is this mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.167.66.187 (talk) 18:46, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Use of Peacock Words and Point-of-View Discussion

I have no clue who this guy is, but this article seems to be a huge promotional piece for him. Any ideas? GenQuest (talk) 00:44, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

• Hi there. You have placed both a POV-check and a peacock-term tags on the article. But google the subject's name and you'll get 37,200 hits. This guy is famous in Lebanon and the Middle East as a political activist, former resistance fighter, businessman, artist and music producer whose music is played on radios and TVs worldwide. His record label is a Warner affiliate and he regularly appears in many TV shows -and was even a star judge in the Middle East version of X-Factor for 2 consecutive years. Plus his notability is not questionable: Numerous press articles and media reports are referenced in the article, including from leading media the world over, from LA Times, to Der Spiegel, El Pais, Al-Ahram, Hurriyet, Al Jazeera... and as you know these media are serious in verifying their sources before they publish. Incidentally, I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that he recently visited the U.S. by invitation from the State Department. Anyway I have reviewed the whole article and almost everything in it is sourced in the references and external links. The only part of the article that I was unable to find a source for is about the prize he was reportedly awarded by the Lebanese Presidency -under the Social Commitments section. I had heard that news at the time I wrote it but never actually found any credible citation, this is why I have now just removed it. Other than that, I honestly think the article does not deserve the Peacock and POV templates placed on it; they do not do it justice and should, in my humble opinion, simply be removed. Thanks. Bahaab (talk) 15:45, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
  • Hi, B. I do not question the person, the referencing (although there are still several un-cited statements made in the article), or the links at this point. I am merely drawing attention to the non-encyclopedic content and style of this article. It needs to be a balanced, truthful discussion about the gentleman. (I personally got the feeling, after reading the article, that he wears a super-hero outfit and cape under his clothes.) Words such as "has a notable passion", "In his search for a just and better world where the notions of justice, liberation, equality… prevail", "he is also a pioneer of World Music fusion...", are all "peacock" (even if sourced), and betray the fact that these are obviously written by fans/supporters. Where are the views of any detractors? I am sure he has some, (the article itself alludes to this) but there is little in the article detailing the who, what, when, or why of them. That would be helpful, while making the article more encyclopedic.
  • Also, though I did not tag it as such, the article badly needs someone to copyedit it, as the sentence structure and punctuation are sorely lacking. Someone more familiar with the subject could kill two birds with one stone with a quick re-write, focusing on both the copy writing and the content.
  • A quick look at the sourcing indicates that the article also appears to violate WMoS, see Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Avoid_self-published_sources section "Using the subject as a self-published source"; sub-section "unduly self-serving". Many statements of fact in the article are only referenced by the subject' s own websites, which is not to say they are untrue, but better referencing must be found to include such statements in any encyclopedia article.

GenQuest (talk) 00:29, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

• • • Hello again GenQuest. You have tagged the article eight days ago and I have waited for others to contribute to this discussion but it seems nothing is happening…
    • As you can see, this article has been improved on a regular basis to comply with Wikipedia standards. Anyone is welcome to bring more citations into it. I am doing so whenever I can. I am not saying it now fully complies and yes, I agree it could still be improved, just like any other Wikipedia article that is not perfect (i.e. most of them). As a matter of fact most of them could be improved and many that are much less documented, much less justified, even showing obvious lacks of compliance are not tagged… If your tags are to say that the article could still be improved, then the same should be applied to virtually all Wikipedia articles. But the reason I say this article does not deserve the tags –nor how you justify them- is that you give the impression to question the credibility of the article and thwart all the efforts made to improve it since the page was created four years ago.
    • The terms and phrases that you view as Peacock terms may be viewed as such when isolated from the context they are written in, but they are not Peacock terms in their context or when you actually refer to the links and citations that support the article. I see it that they simply describe facts as reported.
    • As for detractors, the subject is known to have many in the Lebanon and the Middle East. I –just like many people- have seen and heard them in the media -especially on TV and radio. But while searching the net, I could not find any articles replicating detractors’ views. Anyone who can find sources to detractors’ views are most welcome to contribute to the article by adding them in. Perhaps Arabic citations could be found more easily. Would they be accepted to serve an English article? Bahaab (talk) 04:45, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
      • Bahaab, the discussion about the encyclopedic short comings of this article needs to take place here, not in an edit-war on the article. This is in order to improve the article, as opposed to a request for deletion and re-start. You really shouldn't be impatient about the tags -just because any article carries tags doesn't make it bad, it's a step to improve it, but this takes time -often months- on wikipedia. The first article I significantly contributed to on wikipedia suffered the same fate (tagged for over a year) and rightly so. Allowing the discussion time to take place was admittedly hard, but paid off in the end. This will take some time. Please be patient and let the article have it's day in court with other reviewers. Regards, GenQuest (talk) 18:08, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
        • GenQuest, I am not performing any edit-war on the article and have no idea who is. How can we have other Wikipedians contribute? It seems none of the previous contributors have reacted yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bahaab (talk • contribs) 06:08, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
          • I didn't think it was you, but on review of what I wrote, I see that it may have been construed as such. I apologize for any mis-communication. That was for the benefit of the anonymous sock-puppets that were editing the article at odds with WMoS. That ability has been removed for now. As for getting more people involved --often time will take care of that. If you have other editors that have helped you out in the past, or that you have helped out in the past, have them review the article. It is often best to get people that are not aware of the article's subject, as POV doesn't subconsciously shade their edits. Good Luck. P.S.: I will copy-edit the article when work gives me some free time. GenQuest (talk) 03:42, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
            • Thank you. Incidentally, I just noticed that a former contributor has recently made many improvements to the article's references by adding/fixing a lot of them. On rereading the article now, I would say that it is looks very well documented in terms of citations --much more than many non-tagged articles.Bahaab (talk) 09:56, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

• • I reviewed this article several times. I took into consideration the comments concerning the references; I fixed some and added others. I think that the tags are now inappropriate and certainly unfair and have removed them. This biography is referenced by renowned and reliable media who verify their info and sources before publishing. If those are not considered “Independent sources”, then what would be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sawmasa (talk • contribs) 09:30, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

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