Talk:Michel van der Aa

External links modified (January 2018)

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I have just modified 4 external links on Michel van der Aa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130425034104/http://grawemeyer.org/news-updates/2018up-close2019-wins-music-prize-for-van-der-aa to http://grawemeyer.org/news-updates/2018up-close2019-wins-music-prize-for-van-der-aa
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140526044209/http://www.vilarmonia.com/ to http://www.vilarmonia.com/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101001060447/http://www.intermusica.co.uk/vanderaa to http://www.intermusica.co.uk/vanderaa/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140714235733/http://www.vilarmonia.com/?q=node%2F48%2F to http://www.vilarmonia.com/?q=node%2F48%2F

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DEFAULTSORT change

An editor today changed the DEFAULTSORT template in this article to sort by "V" instead of "A", without any explanation. I reverted, but was reverted again, citing WP:NAMESORT. As far as I can see, this guideline supports the existing sorting by "A". It says "Generally, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish names do not include lowercase particles in sorting, but do include uppercase particles. For example, Otto von Bismarck is sorted {{DEFAULTSORT:Bismarck, Otto von}}". Am I missing something? The equivalent Dutch article sorts as "Aa, Michel van der", as we used to. --Deskford (talk) 17:29, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

but WP:NAMESORT goes on to state "In Belgium, Dutch/Flemish and French/Walloon names sort differently by time period. For people in the Southern Netherlands (Belgium) before 1830, surnames are sorted on the body of the surname and not on the prefix(es). For example, Rogier van der Weyden is sorted {{DEFAULTSORT:Weyden, Rogier van der}} and Gérard de Lairesse {{DEFAULTSORT:Lairesse, Gerard de}}. In contrast, Belgian people since 1830 are sorted on the prefix. For example: Paul van Ostaijen is sorted {{DEFAULTSORT:Van Ostaijen, Paul}} and Christian de Duve is sorted {{DEFAULTSORT:De Duve, Christian}}. which is what I focused on...GrahamHardy (talk) 17:51, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes, Belgian people with Dutch names sort differently, but Michel van der Aa is not Belgian. --Deskford (talk) 17:55, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

The top of the article state This is a Dutch name; the family name is 'van der Aa', not 'Aa'. which is another reason I made the change...GrahamHardy (talk) 17:54, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

But I may well have jumped to the wrong conclusion...GrahamHardy (talk) 17:56, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. The family name, and the form of the surname we use in running text, are not necessarily the same as the key we use for sorting. --Deskford (talk) 17:59, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

As the Dutch and French equivalents of this article sort as 'Aa', we should do the same, I think.--Smerus (talk) 18:37, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Changed back to "Aa"...GrahamHardy (talk) 21:07, 13 January 2019 (UTC)