Talk:Michelle Pfeiffer/Archive 1

Archive 1

NPOV violation

The sentence Since then, Pfeiffer has continued to maintain her status as one of the film world's reigning screen goddesses, despite working much less in recent years. strikes me as an NPOV violation. Leaving aside the inappropriate term "screen goddess", I'm not so sure that she maintained her status during the last decade. I suggest to remove that phrase unless there are some sources backing up the view transported in it.--134.130.4.46 22:17, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Possible copyright violations?

Sections of this article are identical word for word with articles on other websites [1] [2] which have copyright notices. I am not sure whether the articles on these other websites lifted their content from this article, or vice versa, but it's worth drawing to the attention of Wikipedia admins, so I am doing that here.... HarmonicSphere 5:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Not an admin but I really wish people would look for copyright notices before they scream copyright about mirror sites. The first link contains this notice at the bottom of the article: The content on this page was researched and compiled from many high quality public online sources, including the Wikipedia, which is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License.

The second link is illegally copying WP material and redistributing it as their own from what I can tell, they need to release the material under the same license we do. Someone should address this as I have never dealt with such a situation and wouldn't know how to approach it. IvoShandor 05:32, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Birth

The top of the article says '36, but she's also in the 1957 births category. Which is it? — mæstro ^t/c, 08:38, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Paper sources such as Oxford Encyclopaedia, refer her as born in 1957, but since she is an actress I suppouse that she can remove years to her age, although she has been 45 years old for at least two consecutive years (2000 and 2001) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.197.38 (talk) 19:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Awards & nominations

Does anyone know how to interpret the dates of awards such as Golden Globes and Oscars?

The Oscar ceremony happens the year after release- how should we assign dates to the awards?

The official golden globe site lists The Fabulous Baker Boys as 1990 (presumably year of ceremony), but the official oscar site lists the same film as 1989 (presumably year of release)

thoughts? Japanscot (talk) 06:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Image31 33.jpg

The image File:Image31 33.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --04:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Filmography

Most of the ones I've seen on Wikipedia list the most recent work first. Which way is it supposed to be? - IstvanWolf 05:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Why are you people so adamant that Michelle Pfeiffer not be Jewish? "She's obviously not Jewish." Why because she's pretty? Are you Nazis or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.87.58.132 (talk) 21:17, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Michelle Pfeiffer and the Hope Diamond

In March of 1995 Michelle Pfeiffer had the rare opportunity to wear the Hope Diamond. It was for a photo shoot held at the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History for Life Magazine. She is one of the few people ever afforded the opportunity to wear the precious stone. In the 336 years of existence in the Western world, few have worn it. They include Louisa Hope, Adele Bichat Hope, the Dutchess of Newcastle, and May Yohe. Only one or two women wore it while it was owned by Harry Winston. Michelle Pfeiffer was the most beautiful, and she topped them all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60Nomad (talk • contribs) 06:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Why did my newly added profile photo of Michelle disappear?

This is annoying. I changed Michelle's profile picture. It's a legitimate photo my an individual names Jeremiah Christopher, taken at a movie premiere in Loas Angeles in 2007. It's Attribution Creative Commons- I am ALLOWED to use this photo: Michelle_pfeiffer_2007. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adlek neuy (talk • contribs) 10:51, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Michelle Pfeiffer/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: That Ole Cheesy Dude ^{(Talk to the hand!)} 12:36, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to fail this article for now because some of the references are unreliable (quite a serious problem when you think about the fact that that is where the information came from). Sort out the references, make sure they are reliable and nominate this again.

• 2 - IMDB
• 17 - Fansite
• 31 - IMDB
• 38 - Not formatted correctly and doesn't seem too reliable
• 58 - Non-existent
• 65 - IMDB
• 74 - Fansite
• 78 - This is the exact same link as 11 and I wasn't sure about that one's reliability

That Ole Cheesy Dude ^{(Talk to the hand!)} 12:36, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Michelle Pfeiffer/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:06, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I will look at this in the next few days.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:06, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

WP:LEAD

• The lead is visibly short and after reading it I feel it is incomplete. It does not summarize the entire article.
  • Certainly a summary of the personal life should be included.
  • I am sitting here looking at her conventionally attractive photo and thinking to myself, what does the world think? Was she ever a best-dressed, People most beautiful persons list, Maxim, Ask Men, FHM, Stuff, most hottest sexiest whatever lists. Is there any public record of sex symbolness?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:17, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
    • How about some text in the LEAD to the effect of Pfeiffer earned the title of Miss Orange County before becoming a notable actress. Since becoming famous, she has been repeatedly recognized for her beauty, earning record six People Magazine Most Beautiful People recognitions in the 1990s after being on the cover for the inaugural special edition. She has also, . . . whatever best, most, hottest, sexiest, it lists. She has been a spokesperson for whatever beauty companies she likely is a spokesperson for.(just guessing, but I'd put money on somebody wanting to describe her as our face).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:59, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
    • Maybe link OC on first mention. keep in mind OC is one of the more competitive local beauty pageant titles in the country. It's population exceeds that of numerous states. Although lacking the prestige of a state title, she bested a field for a region whose population exceeds that of about 20 states. Plus, Hollywood attracts a lot of beautiful people to that region. I've got no stats, but I am guessing OC, is the most competitive county beauty pageant in the country.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Does the lead look better now? I decided not to add further information about other roles than the ones that are already listed in the lead because those are her most important roles among her filmography.--GDuwenTell me! 22:31, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Below I commented and you must have missed it. You might want a fourth opening paragraph before you get into the trivial like her beginnings in hollywood. Also, her Hollywood star address is not necessary in the LEAD.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:46, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I have made further changes on the lead based on your suggestions, hope its OK now.--GDuwenTell me! 00:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

It is shaping up. I am not going to cross this one off until I finish my runthrough.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:47, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Early life

• Is it possible to clarify whether Miss Orange County and Miss Los Angeles were part of the Miss USA or Miss America network. It is not clear to me why she would compete in Miss LA after winning Miss OC earlier that year if they were not part of the different systems. It seems to me that the winner of either contest would compete in Miss California or Miss California USA next. In general, it is local, state and then national.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:32, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I removed the line about Miss LA. I could not find any reliable source that indicates that she won the pageant, all the sources I have found mention only that she won miss OC.--GDuwenTell me! 21:25, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The opening sentences are suppose to span the highlights not the trivial. This is where you work in 6 consecutive golden globes and such. The current 2nd sentence is second paragraph material.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:20, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• Since Dedee Pfeiffer is notable, you should probably mention why here. A title such as actress, model, or reality tv star, etc. would be fine.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:37, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Done.--GDuwenTell me! 21:09, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• Not too many people know what a stenographer is, so I would link it.

Done.--Gunt50 (talk) 23:03, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

• I don't think cameo appearance is the right word unless she appeared as a stenographer or beauty pageant contestant. You are probably looking for uncredited role, guest appearance or bit part. I could be wrong, so explain yourself if you feel this is the case.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:40, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Done.--GDuwenTell me! 21:09, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

First television and film appearances

• "none of which met with much success" -> none of which met with much critical or box office success.

Done --Gunt50 (talk) 22:23, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

• Pfeiffer took acting lessons - From who or what school?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:59, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Already clarified. --Gunt50 (talk) 22:23, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

• Make sure all the films with links in the filmography are linked in the text.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:06, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

I did that on this section. I didn't spot any more unlinked movies on other parts of the article, so I think it's done at least I omitted an unlinked one. --Gunt50 (talk) 22:51, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

What did you omit?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:51, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

I didn't mean I omitted something. What I'm saying is that I haven't spotted any other unlinked movie within the text at least I have omitted one. --Gunt50 (talk) 00:05, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Mainstream attention

• $ 63,766,510 25 years ago needs a current dollar conversion in parenthesis.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:03, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Done. --Gunt50 (talk) 22:44, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

See Sesame Street for desired conversion technique. We want something that will update itself.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:14, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't know that tool. Done.--Gunt50 (talk) 00:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Critical acclaim

• six consecutive years or roles? This kind of streak is pretty notable and probably worth a mention in the LEAD.

Done.--GDuwenTell me! 22:32, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• convert $18,428,904.

Done.--Gunt50 (talk) 22:44, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

See above.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I took care of that

• 'Makin' Whoopee' should be linked.

It is now. --Gunt50 (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

• "The only other major acting award for which she was nominated that she did not take home for The Fabulous Baker Boys was the BAFTA Award for Best Actress in a Leading Role, which also went to Tandy." needs a citation. It sounds a bit POV to say what the major awards are without a source. Saying she did not win the BAFTA could also use a source, but is not likely to be chaqllenged.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:21, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

I already sourced it. --Gunt50 (talk) 22:59, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

International success

• "the film adaptation of John le Carré's The Russia House (1990)" is either linked wrong or worded wrong. I am just not sure what is proper. The problem is the link for the 1990 film adaptation is in the place in the text that refers to the 1989 book but uses 1990 in parenthesis. You should probably phrase it to use both links like you do for her next role.

Done.--GDuwenTell me! 21:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• In this section it is becoming unclear whether her GG and AA noms are for best actress or best supporting actress.
  • E.G., "third Academy Award nomination and fifth Golden Globe nomination"

Done.--GDuwenTell me! 21:36, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

That was a comment for the whole section including the first paragraph. It seems that even the prior section needs to be fixed. Make sure each different type of award is linked on its first mention.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:57, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

• Convert US$65 millions and US$131.

Done.--GDuwenTell me! 21:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• "She appeared as her character in the music video" - does this mean film clips were included in the video or she appeared in costume.

A clip of the movie was not used, she appeared in the video indeed. Jerry Bruckheimer used it as an advertising to the movie. (I added that to the article).--GDuwenTell me! 21:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

So the reader is left to wonder if she shook her booty, fawned all over the rapper, or stood in a classroom.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:00, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

• the "Subsequent performances included the . . ." paragraph needs a summary. I.e., none of these roles garnered critical acclaim and only film X was a box office successs.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:46, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I only left the titles of the movies, is that ok?--GDuwenTell me! 22:00, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I think you removed encyclopedic content.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:02, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I worked on that paragraph. I re-wrote the encyclopedic contenct and tried to improve it.--Gunt50 (talk) 00:20, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

• "The price would go to..." ???--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:35, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Ough...I'm sorry I messed up. I made it award.--Gunt50 (talk) 01:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Return to film

• Four year absence still seems curious to me.

Apparently she took a hiatus. I read she turned down a role in The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe. You can check her IMDb page or other sources to see the years between 'Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas' and 'Stardust'. --Gunt50 (talk) 23:43, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

• "received a DVD release"?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I think that was written in the article before I started working on it. Since most of the info 'bout the release was confusing, I changed it for the place where the movie was opened.--Gunt50 (talk) 00:12, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Theater

• Was that her only theatre?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

She's a film actress. I was surprised to see she took a stage role when I first read the article. Apparently it was her only theater. I can't find any other info on her stage career. --Gunt50 (talk) 23:43, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Personal life

• It is very difficult to make actor biographies more than proselized filmographies. In many cases, actors and actresses use their notability for the sake of causes. Others become spokespersons for personal gain. I am quite hesitant to consider this article complete without some detail beyond her acting career and family. Surely in the 1990s when she was repeatedly listed among the most beautiful people she was at least the spokesperson for major cosmetics/fashion companies. I would guess she was a spokesperson for other companies.

I added her charity causes to kinda complete the article. Those were barely mentioned and I couldn't find anything about her being a spokesperson or representing a company. Her bios don't mention anything about that. Maybe she actually represented a company in the 90ies, but I can't confirm it. Although it's weird the lack of this kind of info, if that was in the 90ies, it's not likely to be available on the internet.--Gunt50 (talk) 15:25, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I am going to bounce around the internet to check this claim. I see at this that she had a nanny and started filming Dangerous minds while 3-mos pregnant. That also mentions that by winning the beauty pageant she was able to get an agent. "I needed to learn how to act," she says. "In the meantime, I was playing bimbos and cashing in on my looks." is an interesting quote. It mentions she hung out with surfers, was a B-student, where her parents lived before CA. I note you fail to mention her failings and mistakes. She turned down Clarice in The Silence of the Lambs and lost out to Sharon Stone for Basic Instinct. I am going to look at a few more articles before I give up on the spokesperson.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:05, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I squeezed some stuff out of that article to complete early life, those roles that she finally didn't play and how she was represented by an agent.--GDuwenTell me! 18:59, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Early in her career she did some Lux (soap) commercials for their perfume line. That is all I can find. I am shocked she chose not to make the spokesmodel money when she could.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:17, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Also, this article is quite heavy on domestic box and critical acclaim. BAFTA is mentioned once or twice and you mentioned the Golden Bear. You only mention one worldwide box office total in the whole article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:17, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

In most of cases I've only been able to find the domestic box office total for her movies. I added the worldwide one for Batman Returns, trying to address your concern. About the awards. I checked out her profile on IMBd. I haven't spotted any Foreign Award more than the ones I mentioned on the article.--Gunt50 (talk) 14:55, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

• Did she ever present work at Cannes? Keep in mind this is suppose to be neutral. Don't just mention when she won awards, IMO. It would certainly be encyclopedic to say that X film was presented at Cannes the year that Y film took the Z prize and YY actress won the ZZ award.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:19, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I tried to preserve the article's neutrality by mentioning Ryder's Oscar nomination for age of innocence, and Emma Thompon's victory in 1993. Is it enough? --Gunt50 (talk) 00:36, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Checklist

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

---

Almost there

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   As a consistent most beautiful person in the 1990s, I would like to know what beauty/fashion companies she represented.

   This article has failed a very simple broadness test. Do a google news search over an important range of the dates for the subject (1/1/88-12/31/00) and see if there are any interesting facts omitted from the article from the first New York Times article that you see. See above for the many omissions. I am going to do another random check in a few minutes. I hope I don't find a lot of content missing on test number two.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

   From the 1/1/2003-12/31/2007 range the first article that wasn't simply a movie review tells me she use to have pet donkeys and formerly lived around the corner from the walk of fame. They present other important roles she passed over (Thelma and Louise, and Sleepless in Seattle). The article as it is written tells us about the movies she was in and the awards she was nominated for. It needs to go further than that. I am going to do one more breadth test.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:24, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

   I have been waiting for you to find this, but I just found it myself. As Miss OC, she finished in the top 10 of 42 contestants at the Miss California competition (not the Miss California USA one).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:32, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   A little bit too nice to the subject. Failings seem to be absent or glossed over. Still fairly certain this actress has presented work at Cannes without winning.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   image review forthcoming. All images need {{Personality rights}} tags.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:51, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I always forget about those! That's done now.--GDuwenTell me! 18:28, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

1. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   I'll review outstanding issues momentarily, but we are almost there.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:46, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Overall, this subject has a lot of reliable sources available. The current article presents the obvious summary of her filmography, but we need more.I beleive the article could be broadened in a few days. I will check back and evaluate.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:40, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Outstanding issues.

• I understand that she did not win anything. However, wikipedia is suppose to shed light on failures and successes. I continue to believe that this article omits submissions at Cannes. See this link and please summarize for the reader if this is the case. As I have noted above, it would certainly be encyclopedic to say that X film was presented at Cannes the year that Y film took the Z prize and YY actress won the ZZ award.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I googled about work submissions to Cannes. I couldn't really find much, except that Chéri was selected for the Berlinale competition. About what you say about other actresses receiving awards. I mentioned Emma Thompson beating her at the Oscars, and Winona Ryder's victory at the Oscars for The Age of Innocence in order to make the article more neutral. Is that what you're talking about, when referring to YY actress won the ZZ award?--Gunt50 (talk) 22:16, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

• At least two additional successful films were mentioned as roles that she declined. Most great actresses are offered more great roles than they can handle. There is no shame in having declined roles in successful films. You should try to flesh out the other two mentioned above and not the conflict between sources about whether she declined one or was overlooked.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I added she turned down the Pretty Woman and the White Witch roles and clarified why she did so with Basic Instinct.--Gunt50 (talk) 15:55, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

• You are still omitting encyclopedic content regarding her pageantry. The fact that she did not win Miss CA does not mean it did not happen. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:38, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I completed that using that source that you linked previously.--GDuwenTell me! 01:26, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

• Yes, I really enjoy speaking highly about this lady. However, we have to present some foibles. Heck, in some eyes, her career took a wrong turn that went from 6 GGs in a row to nowhere. Let's please broaden the article as best we can.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:38, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
• Still unclear on some of the nominations as mentioned above. Please state the category and link all on first mention.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:56, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I tried to solve this issue. Take a look now.--Gunt50 (talk) 22:16, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

• What about the Lux (soap) perfume content?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

It's now mentioned.--GDuwenTell me! 01:26, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

I am starting to feel like I am doing the work of the author. Should this Calista Flockhart issue be mentioned. I just left something on the article talk page regarding another role missed out on. I don't think I am going to be able to make myself comfortable that this article is appropriately broad.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I added the thing about the Eva Perón role.--Gunt50 (talk) 15:56, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm kinda loth to add the Calista thing since sounds like gossip to me. Could be that considered encyclopedic content?--Gunt50 (talk) 16:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I am sort of convinced that if I asked for a 2nd opinion, the article would pass, but I am really having trouble convincing myself to pass this thing. I am going to sit on it for a few hours.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:24, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

You do that. Although this article is complete, it may lack some aspects. I think a second opinion could be our best choice in this case.--Gunt50 (talk) 19:58, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I am a Hollywood outsider. However, if you were to ask me why Pfeiffer has never won an Oscar, it is because 1.) She has turned down a ton of great roles. 2.) Never went to Cannes to help build her fan base and 3.) never accepted a lush spokesperson role. Just guessing, cuase I don't know. I wish there were a way to definitively say that she never attended Cannes. However, at this point I think if you just mention turning down Thelma and Loise and Sleepless in Seattle, that would satisfy me. Maybe you can find better sources. I am just wondering if a top actress like say Kate Winslet sits at an Oscar every year and says to herself, I was offered 3 of those nominated roles and I am being hard on Pfeiffer or if she has really turned down a great number of top roles compared to other top actresses.

Also, note that I have also done some editing. I basically added detail about the Awards and nominations bequeathed on roles that she turned down. I am not sure if I was overly wordy. E.G. "In 1996, she turned down the role of Eva Perón in the biopic Evita, which went to Madonna and earned her the Golden Globe Award for Best Actress in a Motion Picture Musical or Comedy" could be "In 1996, she turned down the Golden Globe Award-winning role of Eva Perón in the biopic Evita, which went to Madonna"--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

I rephrased that thing and added the Thelma and Lousie role. I'm still looking for reliable sources to include the Sleepless in Seattle role.--Gunt50 (talk) 20:30, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

You might be able to rephrase all the ones I did. Please add Academy Award-nominated role in some form to Louise.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:47, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

I did that about Louise's role. What sentences you rephrased are you talking about? The ones you mention on this nom. page?--Gunt50 (talk) 00:36, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

I think I was talking about some of these edits about others were nominated or won. I am having second thoughts about adding that stuff now that I am working on Julia Roberts. What do you think of it?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I guess I will pass this now.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:03, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Son

Just thought I'd let you know her male child's name is John Kelley, not John Henry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.245.60 (talk) 00:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Just a heads up, since I noticed you changed this information last year and again last month, but Henry is her son's middle name. Note that her daughter is referred to as Claudia Rose rather than Claudia Kelley. Cheers, Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 21:11, 19 October 2011 (UTC).

Pfeiffer's ancestry

Michelle Pfeiffer isn't of Italian-Swiss ancestry. She has never stated that she has Italian ancestry. Her maternal grandfather, Jacob Bernhard Taverna, was of German-Swiss descent. His mother's maiden name was Bernhard, his paternal grandmother's maiden name was Engel, and his paternal grandfather's name was Hans Taverna. Most "Taverna" families in Switzerland descend from a line surnamed "Van Taverna" (this one). They aren't Italian. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 04:48, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Engel is also a jewish Surname. I think, she his jewish (and i mean not the Religion!). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.246.212.237 (talk) 00:10, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

POV and non-neutrality in subheadings

The subheadings "Critical acclaim" and "International success" are not neutral.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 04:54, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Short Lead

The lead is too short with respect to the current article size.--Skr15081997 (talk) 10:51, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

In Popular Culture

I noticed that the popular culture section is missing the reference to Pfeiffer made by Eminem in his song "lose yourself." Considering Eminem's fame and the popularity of the song I believe it is worth including in the article. I apologize for the clumsy edit. I am new to this and I am on a mobile device. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.147.40.172 (talk) 06:10, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Pfeiffer - Jewish?

Isin't Pfeiffer a Jewish surname?

I know she's not Jewish but what's the connection?

It is often a Jewish name, but Michelle Pfeiffer is pretty clearly not Jewish, unless there's something weird I'm unaware of. She of mixed Dutch, German, Irish, Swedish and Swiss descent (it's in the article too). You know, I guess it's possible she may have a Jewish ancestor somewhere down the line (I.e. maybe from her German heritage?) but by the time it got down to Pfeiffer, she's mostly or almost completely or just completely non-Jewish. Vulturell 06:36, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

its rather common that ethnic dutch, germans and swedes have jewish names, Bergman is a good example. Pfeiffer sounds swiss by the way.

On the contrary, it's rather common that Jewish names come from German. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.70.117.103 (talk) 01:21, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Contd. after the answer.

Well, like you say, she's obviously not. It is hard to believe that she is. But, certain names tend to be exclusively Jewish and Pfeiffer seems like one of those names. Also, if it was just a one off thing where the name entered the family line at some point, for it to have endured seems strange as well. Anyhoo, thanks.

I'm pretty sure Pfeiffer is a German surname, though I don't doubt it may also be considered a common Jewish one. Michael 04:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

My surname is Pfeifer. I am from Germany (catholic).

Ah, here is the answer to your "Pfeiffer" mystery. Michelle's father, Richard Pfeiffer, was born in North Dakota in 1933. His father, William Pfeiffer, was born in Minnesota in 1904. His father, also William Pfeiffer was born in 1863 in Colbe, Satle Province, Saxony, Germany (his wife, American-born, was also of German ancestry). His father, Ernst Pfeiffer, was born in 1831 in Germany. Pfeiffer's paternal grandfather is of full German descent, and at least on his mother's side, the family was Catholic. I'm sure his father's side was too - the Pfeiffers. See this family tree [3]. Pfeiffer's mother's tree - which doesn't get into the whole "Taverna" side though - is linked to on the page. Mad Jack 08:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Michael 05:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course she is not Jewish! Mad Jack is right, she is predominantly from German descent. And Pfeiffer is a common German surname and has nothing to do with Jewry. The Name Pfeiffer comes from the medieval musician (piper). There are a couple of version of the name such as Pfeifer or Peiper. 91.12.112.153 11:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Pfeiffer is 100% a jewish Surname! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.160.106.152 (talk) 22:22, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Gold is a Jewish surname; but then Kim in Korean is also gold. So the North Korean Kims (Il Sung, Jong Il and Jong Un) must be Jewish. Methinks not. Pfeiffer is German for Piper. 86.135.49.232 (talk) 03:39, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Pfeiffer is a Jewish Surname, like the Boy from the TV Series "The Wonder Years" Josh Saviano (Paul Pfeiffer). Michelle Pfeiffer has 100% Jewish Blood and not German Blood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.246.198.105 (talk) 20:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

HA! You jerks wish she was Jewish! Oh and basing her name off a TV show, you're an idiot. This gorgeous, beautiful woman is actually Ethnicity:

• 25% German
• 25% Swiss-German
• 25% Swedish
• 25% mix of English, Welsh, French, German, Dutch, and Irish!

So take that you jerks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.189.5.28 (talk) 03:38, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

References

Year of divorce?

In the top table, there is

"Peter Horton ​(m. 1981; div. 1988)"

In the text in appropriate section, there is

"Pfeiffer and Horton decided to separate in 1988, and were divorced two years later"

So did the divorce take place in 1988, or 1990? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.176.98.57 (talk) 11:00, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Cliches

Portions of the lead paragraph sounds like a puff piece written by a fan. "Pfieffer has become particularly known for portraying ...strong female characters with intense sex appeal..." and "Pfieffer is widely considered one of the finest actresses of her generation." I am going to take them out and see what happens.AlexanderSoul (talk) 21:20, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

It could probably go even further. The entire lede reads like a resume not an encyclopedic entry.Chimino (talk) 12:15, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Addrienne Barbeau

Despite only being a voice-over... do you think it'd be fair to list Andrea Barbeau as her succesor as Catwoman, as opposed to Halle Berry?

Images

That's a pretty crappy image of Michelle Pfeiffer! - Ta bu shi da yu

But at least there were no copyright problems with Image:Michellepfeiffer.jpg as with the current one. See Salma Hayek, Teri Hatcher, Nicole Kidman, Rosamund Pike, Susan Sarandon, Rachel Weisz etc. etc. (also their talk pages) for details. <KF> 11:52, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Another role missed out on

Link

Extended content

Madonna : possessed by `` Evita Chicago Sun-Times - Sunday, December 29, 1996 Author: ROGER EBERT LOS ANGELES Madonna , who has always insisted she was the best choice to play Eva Peron, may have been right. It is not only that she holds the screen with charisma and force in the film version of " Evita ," but that she understands from the inside out how Evita invented herself - how she used fashion and stage presence and personal flair to make herself seem bigger than life. Consider the problem of the president of Argentina. Alan Parker, the director, requested permission to shoot on Eva Peron's famous balcony in the Plaza De Mayo in Buenos Aires. Permission was denied. Every member of the Cabinet was approached. No soap. Finally Madonna went personally to make a call on the president. After their conversation, permission was granted to use the sacred balcony. "What did you use on him?" I asked her. "Psychic power?" "I think it was excellent-smelling perfume," she said. "I think at that point I was possessed by her. I went in costume to the meeting, and I think that he picked up on my passion for her, or suddenly saw a different point of view." It is not too big a stretch to envision the original Evita making a call to the presidential office, also with passion, also with perfume, and getting what she wanted. The other actresses considered for the role (and they are both wonderful: Meryl Streep and Michelle Pfeiffer) would have brought other qualities, but can you imagine either one of them deciding which perfume would best seduce the president? Evita was the rock star as politician's wife. She adored the movies. She would not have been oblivious to the cult of personality that fed on such personages as Churchill, Hitler or DeGaulle. Born poor and illegitimate, she understood how the movies fed the souls of the disenfranchised with images of power and glamor. She used that knowledge to create herself in the image of a star, and then she found the politician to whom she could attach herself (or was it Evita who swept Juan Peron behind her?). "Most of her politics were instinctive," Madonna told me. This was the day before the movie's Hollywood press premiere, in early December (the film opens nationally on Wednesday). "Peron was the person who understood the dogma of politics. He was the intellectual of the two, and she had the natural instincts. She was the person that could relate to the people and that's why they worked so good together and that's why they were so great for each other. She totally operated on street smarts and instincts, absolutely." And so, some would say, has Madonna , who also willed herself to worldwide celebrity, who reinvents her image with each tour and has done it yet again, trading in the strutting sleaze queen for her new incarnation as serious musical star and new mother. She seemed quieter, more thoughtful, when I talked to her; there was none of the cheerful desire to shock that I remembered from the 1991 Cannes Film Festival, when she paused on the steps of the Palais and threw open her cloak to reveal what appeared to be stainless steel underwear. Remembering her standing there, bathed in floodlights, covered on every TV channel in Europe, cheered by thousands of fans, I asked her what Evita was thinking about as she stood on the Plaza De Mayo balcony. In the movie, it is the moment of her great early triumph, when she realizes she has reached the summit. "I think that she must have felt incredibly loved," Madonna said. "I think she must have felt a real sense of victory, of accomplishment. When you spend your entire life having people say you'll never amount to anything or you're no good or you don't have what it takes, to finally have achieved what she achieved must have been the ultimate revenge." And, I continued, what were you thinking when you stood on the red carpet in front of the Palais de Festival in Cannes, and the band was playing and the paparazzi were going crazy - what does that feel like for someone? Is it like Evita 's feelings? "It's a rush, that's for sure," she said. "Especially the first time it happens. It's incredibly overwhelming; it's confusing. And you do feel an enormous sense of love. Yeah." I think a rock star was a good choice for this role, because you know what it feels like to be the spotlight of this kind of mob adoration, I said. Mainstream actresses work mostly just in front of a camera, and never have that experience. "Well, she definitely fed off the energy of the people, and she whipped them up into frenzy, that's for sure," Madonna replied. "And she gave them what they wanted. They wanted her to dress up; they wanted her to come out with the fantastic hats and the beautiful jewels and the incredible hairdo. They wanted someone to look up to, especially because she came from poverty. She was from the working class, and they could say to themselves, well, look, she did it, and if she did it, I can do it." "You mean, your everyday Joe on the street?" Let's put it this way, most of us never put ourselves on a path to get ourselves in front of 10,000 screaming people. Some of us do. You have to be able to imagine yourself in that position. "I can assure you I never imagined myself in front of 10,000 people. Since I was a child (I cannot lie) I've always enjoyed having an audience - but 10,000 people is something you cannot imagine. It evolves into that. I can honestly say I never expected what's happened to me, and I could never have expected, like, performing, for instance, in a soccer stadium in front of 120,000 people." After I said it, I realized 10,000 was a pretty conservative number. When she arrived in Argentina to play Eva Peron, however, Madonna was not welcomed like Evita 's second coming. There were demonstrations, there was rude graffiti on the road from the airport, and she was greeted with protests, headlines, resentment, even hatred. People wanted Madonna to. . . ". . . get out! I think they were angry that, you know, that we were coming in and making a movie about their heroine when they hadn't done it themselves. I think that kind of ticked them off. And then there were the people who thought she was a saint. They thought only Mother Teresa could portray her in a movie. Then there were other people who thought she was a sinner, and they didn't want a tribute being made to her. So it got very confusing. "If you go out into the provinces, they still have her picture on their walls. She had a profound effect on these people. I can't explain it. Plus, she died so young, and she's been kept alive in that sort of myth-making machine." The protests helped to firm the government's opposition to allowing Madonna to film (or even stand) on Evita 's balcony. But then the president came around. "I think up until that point, all he had to go on was hearsay," she said. "The stage version of the musical portrays a very one-dimensional version of her. It doesn't show her in a very humane way; it doesn't show any vulnerability, it doesn't explain her past. Alan Parker had the chance to do that in a movie, and I explained that to the president. I also think that once he heard the music, he was very moved by it. I played him a lot of the stuff that we had already recorded, and I think that I convinced him that we were going to treat her in a respectful manner in the film." The music was already recorded, because, of course, there was no way to record live soundtracks in scenes on location with thousands of extras and marching troops and roaring engines and cheering throngs. In a film with almost no spoken dialogue - it's sung all the way through, like an opera - the music had to be perfect. The director couldn't march his thousands of extras back and forth for days while the actors worked on a note. So the score was recorded in England, and then in Argent ina the actors had to match every nuance of it. "What we had to do was a very long process," Madonna said. "First, we had to rehearse the scenes with all the actors right in a room and get the physicality of everything and the right sort of emotional intensity. Then we went into the recording studio and did the same thing. Then we got separated into different isolation booths and we could see each other through the Plexiglas and we were still acting the scenes out. It was very bizarre. "Then there were a lot of scenes that we weren't sure about, so we had options. We would have subtler takes on things and more dynamic takes on things, so that when we were filming we would have choices. The last third of the movie, which is certainly the most emotional portion of the movie, for the most part we did live because there's no way we could have matched everything. You can't cry on cue. I was very happy that we got to do those scenes live. That was the best." In most movies, I said, everything depends on the star, the subject of the shot. But here you had a lot of shots where everything depended upon these enormous military-style logistics with the extras and the troops and all the spotlights, and when they got everything going, then you had to hit your mark, bang!, and if you didn't do it then they had to do it all over again. That must have been difficult. "It was. On the other hand, it was a lot like when you're on tour and you're doing a full-scale show that involves an incredible amount of lights and choreography and musicians and you have to hit marks then, too. It's kind of similar." In the days leading up to the premiere, Madonna was also playing the role of new mother. A suite was reserved for her in the Marina Del Rey hotel where her interviews took place, and she slipped upstairs for mothering time on a regular basis. People who had been around her a lot said she seemed calmer, quieter. "I feel that," she said. Is that what happens? "I think it's been a combination. First, making this movie, which was such a challenge and such a learning experience. It was two years of my life, and it was so fulfilling to me as an artist. It gave me the chance to work on every aspect of my life, of myself, as a creative person. Then having a child has also been incredibly fulfilling and centering. Both of those things have changed me." Did people tell you that it was bad for the trajectory of your stage and recording career to take off two years and work on a film project that wasn't your main job, so to speak? "Not one person told me I shouldn't do this. Everyone thought it was a great idea." But it's unconventional to say for two years that you're not going to tour, you're not going to do anything but focus on this movie. "This is true. But I'm no stranger to unconventional." Caption: Madonna said the two-year film project "gave me the chance to work on every aspect of my life." Madonna , the star of " Evita ," faced controversy in Argentina for taking the part - both from people who honor Eva Peron as heroine and from those who castigate her as a sinner. Antonio Banderas stars with Madonna in `` Evita . Edition: LATE SPORTS FINAL Section: SHOWCASE Page: 1 Index Terms: MOVIES ; PROFILES Dateline: LOS ANGELES Record Number: CHI1070115 Copyright 1996, 1997 Chicago Sun-Times, Inc.

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2021

Change "housewife" to "homemaker". Sina101010 (talk) 06:24, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: no reason given for change Elli (talk | contribs) 07:30, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Grease 2

Michelle Pfeiffer did not star in Grease 2. That was her sister Dedee. 67.6.25.140 (talk) 15:46, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Simply untrue. Rcarter555 (talk) 16:49, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Stating what Pfeiffer is known for in the lede

Several critics and journalists have stated that Michelle Pfeiffer is known for her versatility to the point where it is considered a defining characteristic of her acting career, which has been cited throughout the article with reliable sources. There are several instances on Wikipedia of a performer/actor's trademark being mentioned in the opening sentence of their lead paragraph (Meryl Streep's versatility and accents, Kate Winslet's portrayal of headstrong women in period dramas, Keira Knightley's work in period dramas, but for some reason whenever I mention Pfeiffer's versatility, it is removed by an editor who considers the statement to be "redundant" or some similar reason, which I can not understand the reason for. I have reinstated this statement in the hopes of reaching consensus. Changedforbetter (talk) 19:57, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

• I agree that the inclusion of this information in the lead is solidly supported by citations. It is also helpful information to help a reader get a broader understanding on how Pfeiffer's career is discussed and defined by critics. That being said, I could possibly see "versatility" being taken as an overtly positive assessment of her so if this wording still causes issues in the future, an alternative form could focus on her diverse roles as that may be seen as more objective. I am not saying I agree with this, but I wanted to propose a potential compromise if the current wording still causes issues. I do appreciate that you have brought up other actor articles as there does seem to be precedent for this kind of wording. To add to those three, Lady Gaga's image reinventions and musical versatility just mentions in her lead, and it even includes the "versatility" word. Aoba47 (talk) 23:18, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you :) Changedforbetter (talk) 13:49, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

@NiceBC: Apologies for the ping. I just wanted to invite you to the above discussion since you have made edits regarding this topic. I do not have strong feelings either and I have not read the coverage on Pfeiffer and her career. I did point out above that this kind of language can be found in other articles, and even FAs, but again, I'm neutral on this matter. Would there be room for a compromise and instead using versatility, say something about her work in diverse genres (as that would read more neutrally in my opinion). Again, apologies for the ping and I hope I'm not being a pain. Just trying to faciliate discussion to get this matter resolved. Aoba47 (talk) 20:25, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

It’s all good, thank you actually! And as you had mentioned before, the "versatility” part does sound as an "overtly positive assessment” in the lead, specially given that the other user adds the “great acclaim” she has earned in her career two or three more times in the next few lines. It should be more nuanced; I totally understand the point of mentioning an actor’s trademark, just like I recently did in Anjelica Huston's article, which says she is known for playing eccentric or unusual roles. I think it should go more towards that direction, like that what type of roles or films she has predominantly acted in?

The idea she is acclaimed and well established as an actress is already supported by facts and said attribution given (awards received and being considered a bankable star), it doesn’t really need to be mentioned so explicitly and repeatedly.

This article, at some points, tends to sound quite effusive, with its positively loaded language. That should be avoided.

NiceBC (talk) 22:31, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

That ‘versatility’ information is already included in the lead. She is a “prolific performer” whose career has gone on for over “four decades”. That, there, I feel like it’s enough to support the idea she is done a lot as an actress. NiceBC (talk) 22:41, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for your comments. In regards to your concern that versatility could read as an "overtly positive assessment", I would like to argue that the term "versatility" does not necessarily indicate that an actor or performer is good at what they do, neither do the terms prolific, versatile, and acclaim automatically go hand-in-hand. The term versatile literally means someone who applies whatever skills they have, regardless of quality, to different things or areas of a trade and, as mentioned before, is a term used in several articles of similar caliber. Although I can see how it could skew somewhat complimentary, a prolific performer doesn't necessarily have to be versatile; likewise, a performer can also be acclaimed without being described as versatile, and vise versa. However, I'd like to note that I am not tied to the word versatile; it's just a term I've seen used to describe performers in similar articles to establish an artist's trademark.

On that same note, several edits ago when I was re-writing the article's lede, I had in fact neutrally mentioned something along the lines of Pfeiffer is known pursuing eclectic roles in a range of genres (which does not imply whether or not she is actually good at this), but this was also removed from the article by another concerned editor who for some reason felt this was inappropriate. Prior to this, I had even simply mentioned that Pfeiffer is known for her performances in both comedic and dramatic roles, but this was also removed, therefore there appears to be continued discourse surrounding how this speicfic actress should be described in their lede, for some reason or another. Curious to know your thoughts. Changedforbetter (talk) 22:00, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

@NiceBC Changedforbetter (talk) 22:01, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey! I apologise for taking so long to answer. It’s been a busy week! And I really thank you for 1. opening up the discussion, 2. taking into into account other users’ opinions, and 3. Your overall contributions to the article. I know what it feels to spend a lot of time researching and working on articles you feel passionate about, the least I want to is being a pain in the ass for you or anyone.

I have myself done the mistake before of getting a little imparcial with articles about living people before. It’s normally just words that try to give more “weight” to what we are saying, so I’ve only done relatively small changes in regards to that in this page, which does feel way more complete and improved after all you’ve done in it.

Now that you lay out your point, I can totally see it that way.. But it’s funny; I can also still see the versatile bit being taken as an overly positive assertion. I think it may be open to interpretation, obviously that depending on a bunch of factors we can’t even count from our screens.

To be completely honest with you, I feel like the lead doesn't need anything else to get the idea across, but I’d personally use something in the lines of the sentence you used before:"eclectic roles in a range of genres". It is specific, and as you point out, doesn't specify the quality. NiceBC NiceBC (talk) 06:22, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

@NiceBC Hi there, no worries and thank you so much for your detailed, considerate response and feedback :) I appreciate you being so open to discussing a compromise. For the sake of avoiding any overtly positive sentiments that could be caused by the use of the term versatile in the lede, I agree that "eclectic roles in a range of genres" would be more appropriate, and will work on incorporating this into the article. Changedforbetter (talk) 16:08, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! NiceBC (talk)