Talk:Mid-Autumn Festival/Archive 2012 and prior

Barbecues and pomelo rinds

"It is also very common to have barbecues outside under the moon, and to put pomelo rinds on one's head." This statement does not seem to have any culture or historical reference. The word "common" seems to overly generalize this practice over all cultures that have this festival. I think this statement should be removed until a reference can be identified to support this practice as "common" or at least narrowed down it to specific culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.102.214.84 (talk) 15:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Barbecuing (烤肉 in Chinese) is a widespread celebration for this holiday in Taiwan, however my friends tell me it is a relatively new thing (they thought it started in the 70s). However it is absolutely typical of Mid-Autumn Festival parties and gatherings in Taiwan today. I have lots of pictures of myself and friends eating pomelo and roasting meat to celebrate. I have found some sources and will add it to the page. joye (talk) 17:30, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Calcuation of date

How is the date of Mid-Autumn Festival Calculated? --Eraticus 01:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

The fifteenth day of the month eight in Chinese calendar.
The rule of Chinese calendar is not complex, but unlike Gregorian calendar, Chinese calendar is not based on some "definited" rules, but based on the movement of astronomical objects (Sun, Earth and Moon), for example, the calendar requires months should begin on the new moon day. So it is difficult to calculate from scratch unless you are an astronomical professor. — Yaohua2000 01:20, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

No Yaohua, it is not very difficult to calculate and you do not have to be an astronomical professor. There are formulas that convert Western Calendar date to Chinese Lunar Calendar date. Derek LeungLM 00:04, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Mid-autumn festival and lantern festival

I am from Taiwan. I don't think Mid-autumn festival is also called Lantern festival. Mid-autumn festival: 15th day of month eight Lantern festival: 15th day of month one it is also called mooncake festival even though it doesn't revolve around the mooncakes

Hi. Will remove the Taiwan reference - but do note that you can easily make changes as you deem fit. There are most certainly things that you know more about than others outside of Taiwan! And don't forget to sign out with four tildes.

Will also place a {fact} tag on the reference to Hong Kong - HKers who are more knowledgeable can make the necessary modifications.202.20.5.206 08:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I am from Hong Kong. I agreed with the Taiwanese. Lantern Festival is mid-January in Lunar New Year. It is different from Mooncake Festival. I can't update the page, please update the info as soon as possible. 9 October, 2006. 10.30am (PST)

Done. 202.20.5.206 21:13, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Singaporeans sometimes call it "Mooncake festival" in very informal settings too, so is that worthy for mention?--Huaiwei 09:11, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I am from Mainland China. I agreed with the Taiwanese. Lantern Festival is mid-January in Lunar New Year. It is different from Mooncake Festival. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.53.90.185 (talk) 01:10, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Vietnam

A certain user has continued his habit of removing references of Vietnamese on several cultural pages, including this one recently in December. He removed reference of Vietnam at the top of the page where reference of other nations who practice this holiday (such as Korea, etc.) are mentioned, and then he removed the little blurb about the Vietnamese variation, for quite obviously absolutely no reason. I've just re-added it. Chenlomo 03:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Japan and Tsukimi redirect

I posted this on the Tsukimi redirect page and thought I'd post it here too to see if anyone disagrees: I feel that tsukimi is sufficiently different from the Mid-Autumn festival that it deserves its own article. Tsukimi is more related to Japanese appreciation of nature like the tradition of cherry blossom / autumn foliage viewing. I'd like to make a Tsukimi article (noting the relation to Mid-Autumn festival) if there are no objections Notnotchris 22:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I would a gree that Tsukimi, as a cultural custom, is sufficiently different to warrant a separate page--else, this page should be moved to Moon Festival and have a section on how the Moon Festival is realized in various contemporary Asian cultures. mitcho/芳貴 07:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Please note nearly every cultures in the world have some sort of harvest festivity therefore each country's harvest festivity should not re-direct to Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival. Each cultures harvest festivity is slightly different from each other and should be named separately. Grouping all East Asian harvest festivity as Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival is false. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Consoleman (talk • contribs) 03:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

copy/pasted?

large parts of this article appear to be copied from other parts of the web. http://www.chinatown.com.au/eng/article.asp?masterid=155&articleid=736 take a look, try to fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.231.33.202 (talk) 23:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Vietnam and "Tết Trung Thu" redirect

I would like to write the new page "Tết Trung Thu" but it was already redirect. I have a lot of information enough to write such a new page not only a part of Mid-autumn Festival page. So I suggest we should change the "Tết Trung Thu" redirect. Neweco 00:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Why not just put it under the Vietnamese section of this page? Yellowtailshark (talk) 01:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Problem with the categories and languages

I don't have time to fix this but I noticed that during an edit, someone accidentally deleted the other-language Wiki links, and the categories. Thanks --Dpr 21:32, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Fixed it. Some IP decided to take out all the refs, foreign wiki links and cats. bibliomaniac15 21:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

References

Any ideas on getting references for the "Stories of the Mid-Autumn Festival" section? It's practically impossible for anyone to even suspect if people are just writing nonsense there because it's all fiction anyway... enochlau (talk) 16:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Buddhist

I see this has a "WikiProject Buddhism" tag. I've just finished re-doing Public holidays in Thailand, to which I added a new table, Other national observances, culled mostly from Thai calendars that list them as other than workweek holidays. The Buddhist festival corresponding to Mid-Autumn Festival is Thai: Wan wâi Prá Jahn, Day to Respect the Moon when [[Thai lunar calendar|Thai Moon 10 is Full. It is a low-key Buddhist festival at the same time as the Mid-Autumn Festival, (in 2008, Sep 14). On the other national observances table, I labeled it as Moon Festival (Buddhist), but that page does not and may never exist without some big-time help. Pawyilee (talk) 16:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Moving Houyi and Chang'e Section onto its own article

I feel that listing 6 versions of this story draws too much attention to itself. Should we summarize and link to a sub-article as Houyi and Chang'e? Yellowtailshark (talk) 01:55, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

This section is overlong and repetitive. It is not necessary to tell the complete stories of the "six different versions" because there is a great deal of overlapping between them and the differences do not greatly change the basic story. It would be better to give a fairly detailed but brief synopsis of one version (there are already separate Wikipedia articles on Houyi and Chang'e, after all) and then list the differences that exist in other versions of the story. I suppose I should do that myself if I can find the time, unless someone else does it first.Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 06:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I have finally got round to editing the section about the various different legends to avoid telling all six overlapping versions in unnecessary detail. Further editing is welcome but it would be better to make the section shorther rather than longer.Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 11:53, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Blanking of "East Asian" and removal of Korean name

See [1]. The blanking editor doesn't believe the Mid-Autumn Festival is celebrated in other Asian nations, nor that mooncakes are eaten. See Mooncake#Use_in_other_countries for evidence of the contrary. Badagnani (talk) 00:51, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Mooncakes have nothing to do with Korean Chuseok or Japanese Tsukimi. The Mid-Autumn Festival is distinctly Chinese that have very little in common with those two other cultural celebrations. This article is about the Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival, and there's little sense to say that this Chinese festival is celebrated in other cultures where different traditions are held. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 01:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I have changed "East Asian" to "Chinese and Vietnamese", because China is the only country in East Asia that celebrates this festival. Other countries in East Asia, as defined in the Wikipedia article East Asia, have different traditions. I don't know much about the Vietnamese holiday, so I'll leave it as it is. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 01:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

So you're stating that Japanese do not eat mooncakes during the Mid-Autumn Festival? That is a very interesting claim. Badagnani (talk) 01:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The article is not about the Chinese celebration, but about the East Asian celebration. I suppose you'll next claim that Mandu and Gyoza have nothing whatsoever to do with Jiaozi. Very strange. Badagnani (talk) 01:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

And again, here. Badagnani (talk) 01:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Japanese eat rice dumplings on a moon-viewing festival called Tsukimi. This celebration this article is about is distinctly Chinese/Vietnamese, and the only country that celebrates this in East Asia is China. To call this celebration "East Asian" is misleading. Mandu and Gyoza are both very similar to Jiaozi, but Tsukimi, Chuseok and Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival are very different from eachother. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 01:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Well I don't believe either of you unless you can prove your claim? The article's references is bad and a lot of areas could be disputed. So provide ref of keep quiet. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 03:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Right now, the introductory paragraph specifically lists China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Singapore. It seems the "East Asian" original intro was accurate and should be restored. Once reliable sources are found, the specifics for each country can be worked out in the body of the article, but the intro is supposed to be a general summation. — Satori Son 13:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The reason for this is that we're using the English title "Mid-Autumn Festival," and all of these places celebrate a festival (necessarily with a different name due to different languages, and more or less similar or different traditions due to cultural differences) during the middle of autumn. It's very unfortunate that the blanking took place before this discussion took place, and editors carefully examined what was proposed to have been removed. Badagnani (talk) 17:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Not only are we working with an English title, but an extremely generalized one at that. I have returned the intro sentence to "East Asian" and restored the other countries' names for this semi-generic celebration. As I said, once reliable sources are found, the exact details can be worked out in the main body of the article. — Satori Son 18:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Out of the four countries you mentioned, China and Taiwan are the only countries in East Asia, and the rest are in Southeast Asia. The Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival defined in this article is not even semi-generic. Malaysia and Singapore may celebrate the Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival because of the significant number of ethnic Chinese populations. Saying this Chinese festival is generically celebrated in East Asia is ignorant and very misleading. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 00:08, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

This Malaysian article definitely does not seem to believe that the Mid-Autumn festival (Chinese) has anything to do with people other than Chinese. allmalaysia.info To make an East Asian claim on something that is predominately Chinese in origin is definitely ignorant especially with the Chinese origin of mooncakes as the mooncake article says. If the Mid-Autumn festival is East Asian, then somebody better fix the mooncake article. It is rather strange to claim that this festival is East Asian when the content appears to deal with traditions of Chinese origin. Even information in the Vietnamese section still refers back to a legend of Chinese origin. --Feizhou (talk) 09:48, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it's time for an article split. I don't know too much about Chuseok and Tsukimi, and both articles offer scant information and no references. Maybe they all originated from the same festival, and maybe they did not, but unless they share the same defining characteristics (and I would discount visiting relatives and ancestral worship as "defining characteristics", East Asians traditionally do this in almost all festivals), I don't see how they cannot be considered different festivals. So maybe it's time to make this a disambiguation page and create Zhong Qiu or Zhong Qiu Jie specifically focused on the Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:20, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a good idea, but you are correct when you say "Maybe they all originated from the same festival, and maybe they did not..." Without any reliable sources on the matter, we cannot say with certainty. My opinion is that an article split might be better after this article is more fully sourced. Honestly, someone needs to find a good, well-researched book on this subject (these subjects?) and the origins. Until then, we may have to be a little more vague than would normally be preferable. — Satori Son 18:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Right, maybe they all originated from the same festival, maybe they did not. An article split and disambiguating this page means that the page will take a neutral stance toward that matter. It wouldn't say anything about whether or not they share the same origin - it's just a disambig page. On the other hand, placing or mentioning different East Asian harvest festivals in this article, we're making an implication that they are similar or share similar origins, when we don't actually have any sources to back that up. That's why we had User:VeryGoodBoy come and make the edits that he did, and that's why we'd have other editors that disagree. With Mid-Autumn Festival coming up next Monday, there's a chance we'll have more "visitors" to this article that'll make similar edits. If we make this page a disambiguation page, however, we'll effectively remove it as a "battleground" for editors who'll disagree. If or when reliable sources surface that pertain to similar origins between these festivals, then we can make a real article out of "Mid-Autumn Festival". You said maybe we need to be a little more "vague" until sources surface - making this a disambiguation page does exactly that, it would make the title "Mid-Autumn Festival" a little more vague. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:57, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

We should not cater to disruptive users like VeryGoodBoy who want to make this article a battleground. We should base our decisions on information which is published by reliable sources, not on pacifying editors who ignore consensus and unilaterally edit war to get their way.

But if you can come up with a good disambiguation page, I will not object. Until then, the consensus is for a more general "East Asian" intro. — Satori Son 22:36, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with making this into a disambiguation page. Defining characteristics, I believe, should be harvest festivals held on the 15th of August on the lunisolar calendar. For Chuseok, I'm sure it didn't originate from the same festival as the others. Many sources clarify that it originated from Gabe, a festival started by the Silla kingdom. I'll try my best at properly referencing the article Chuseok on this matter. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 21:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Even if all the festivals have more or less autochthonous origins (prior to the sinicization of Korea, Japan, etc.), it is likely that there was some merging of Chinese Mid-Autumn traditions, such as the mooncake, into these non-Chinese Mid-Autumn festivals over time. Hence, the consumption of mooncakes in Vietnam and Japan (and even in Taiwan and southern China, which were not originally Sinitic). Badagnani (talk) 22:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia article Mooncake, mooncakes are mainly sold in Chinatowns in Japan, and there is no proof whether it is eaten on Tsukimi. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 23:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Please let me point out that I have not seen any depictions of mooncakes in anything related to Japanense culture in all the various japanese anime that I have seen and I am sure that, if mooncakes was something used in Japanese culture, you bet some anime will make sure this important part of japanese culture will be given proper treatment.--Feizhou (talk) 09:48, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Please note Mooncakes are not eaten by Koreans during Chuseok, Koreans have their own rice cake called "Songpyun" and other traditional goodies. And most of all Korean people use Chuseok as remembering dead family members and dead ancestors. --—Preceding unsigned comment added by Consoleman (talk • contribs)

A Japanese couple just presented a friend of mine with a box of four mooncakes. Just because it's not depicted in anime doesn't mean they're not sold and consumed by Japanese people. Badagnani (talk) 03:15, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Please let me point out that I have not seen any depictions of eggnog in anything related to American culture in all the various american cartoons that I have seen and I am sure that, if eggnog was something used in American culture, you bet some cartoon will make sure this important part of american culture will be given proper treatment.

Doesn't really hold up, does it? Doing cultural research from anime is pretty much one of the worst possible ideas. It is not an accurate and complete representation of everything in Japanese life — it's a cartoon. tgies (talk) 10:34, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

My suggestion

Move the current content to a page called Zhong Qiu Jie or a variation of the term, and weed out the content that's not related to Chinese culture - it's totally unsourced anyway. Then refer to Zhong Qiu Jie as a festival celebrated by the Chinese instead of by East Asians. Then make this page a disambiguation page that looks like this:

Mid-Autumn Festival may refer to:

• Chuseok, a Korean harvest festival
• Tsukimi, a Japanese harvest festival
• Zhong Qiu Jie, a Chinese harvest festival

And add on whatever other festival might be called "Mid Autumn Festival" in English. User:VeryGoodBoy might be disruptive, but he's not entirely baseless. We've all recognised that the article is horribly lacking in references, and since this article is clearly heavily based on Chinese culture, we should not just leave it claiming that it is celebrated in the way that it claims, and based on the Chinese origins that it claims, while at the same time claiming it also pertains to other East Asian cultures, without some references to back that up. It's best to leave it neutral. Yes, Korean and Japanese harvest festivals may also be called "Mid Autumn Festival" in English, but the problem is not merely the title here. The article is heavily based on Chinese traditions and myths. Leaving "Mid Autumn Festival" as a disambig page would reconcile the fact that all these festivals may be called "Mid Autumn Festival" without basically implying that Japanese and Koreans and other East Asians are celebrating a Chinese festival. And if some reliable sources and references come up pertaining to similar origins or celebratory activities and food, we can expand upon this page and make it a real article. The way the article stands, it's not so much about sourcing the existing content anyway, it's about re-writing based on reliable sources. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 00:09, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

"Zhong Qiu Jie" isn't an English term, and we have one: "Mid-Autumn Festival." More preferable would be "Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival," which would include festivals in the PRC, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, and wherever Chinese people live and celebrate it. The thing is, the Vietnamese festival, and some of the other ones, are very similar and have links to the Chinese one. Badagnani (talk) 00:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't care too much about the name, but note that neither Chuseok nor Tsukimi, nor Chingming Festival, are English terms. There are probably others. If we can agree on "Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival", then so be it (and pray that our Taiwanese compatriots would not have a problem with that). Also, I just discovered that Zhongqiujie currently redirects to this article. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 00:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree to this change, save some minor disagreements. It seems to me that Japanese Tsukimi is primarily a celebration of the harvest moon, not the harvest. The Vietnamese Tết Trung Thu should be added. I agree with using Zhongqiujie as the new title for this article, which is entirely about Chinese traditions and customs. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 00:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

We don't use foreign terms as titles at en:WP, when English terms exist. Badagnani (talk) 00:34, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

We don't use Korean Thanksgiving Day for Chuseok. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 00:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Also I'd like to point out that I would love to expand the article with the current title to include how the festival is celebrated in other cultures and countries. But as it has been pointed out before - we don't have sources right now, so we can't expand. The lack of sources, however, presents a problem for the article as it currently stands because it's claiming that this is how the festival is celebrated and originated and that it is celebrated in other cultures besides the Chinese. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 00:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

If you find sources that one festival is a direct derivation of the other, then I agree to your proposal for expansion. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 00:33, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

So how about Mid-Autumn Festival (Chinese festival) or Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival then? And I'd like to point out that the problem with this "we don't use foreign terms" dogma is that it stands to reason then that we redirect Chuseok and Tsukimi back to this page. Or better yet, we may have to redirect anime to Japanese cartoon. Good luck with that one. LOL! Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 01:14, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

That's incorrect; we use English names when they exist in the literature. The Chinese festival is well known under several different English names. I don't think the Korean and Japanese ones have English names. Badagnani (talk) 01:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Quick google search suggests that the Korean and Japanese festivals may indeed be called "Mid Autumn Festival" in English. But if you are correct that they don't actually have English names, it truly begs the question as to why this thing is referred to as an East Asian festival as to include the Japanese and the Koreans. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:22, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The "Chinese mid-autumn festival" sounds acceptable. If a real English name exist, there seems to be little reason to use pinyin or romanization names. Benjwong (talk) 07:14, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think using English term is good idea, besides Korean "Chuseok" is very different from Chinese mid-autumn festival. Korean family members get together and visits their ancestor graves and pray for dead ones. In return, Korean people eats specially prepared foods and use this national three days holiday as excuse to met their family at hometown and don't cerebrates like Chinese people do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Consoleman (talk • contribs) 03:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Please split the article if it is that different. Benjwong (talk) 04:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey everyone, i think while the different countries that celebrated the holiday has their own characteristics, but these countries were highly influenced by China in ancient times. They have adopted the Lunar Calendar, which is from China, and many of the lunar calendar holidays as well. The origin of how they were adopted might be different, but the fact that they were adopted from the Chinese calendar is a fact. So I think we should keep the different countries, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc and their holidays about mid-autumn on this page, even though its origin is Chinese. I think we should pay respect to the people who invented the holiday and all of our ancestors who promoted it and passed it on to the next generation. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Midautumn asia (talk • contribs) 01:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Thailand's Mid-Autumn Festival

Thailand's culture, as the French noticed when they tried to name the whole peninsula Indochina, has a mid-Autumn festival with an Indian name, Thetsagan Sart, that has about equal parts of Indian and Chinese customs on an animist base. The Thai mid-autumn festival article is just "start-class", and would benefit if youse guys ever whip this one into shape. Pawyilee (talk) 08:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Unsupported claims and unreliable sources

The claim in the intro that the Mid-Autumn Festival of Chinese origin is a popular tradition in East Asia is an unlikely statement without supportive references. In addition, one of the sources is an internet blog, which is not a reliable source. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 14:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Not only can the statement be falsely interpreted as the definitive origin of many other East Asian holidays, the whole article is fixiated on the Chinese tradition - which I have no problems if the statement in question is taken out (since the article will no longer associated with other East Asian tradtions). Kuebie (talk) 20:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

New suggestion

I thought more about the name "Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival" and admittedly, the more I thought about it, the more I don't think I like it - namely because nobody calls it that. They just say "Mid-Autumn Festival", without the "Chinese" in front of it. So I would like to offer another suggestion. We can make a disambiguation page called Mid-Autumn Festival (disambiguation) and make it look like what I suggested above. Then we link the disambig page at the top of this article, and re-tool this article to say that it is a Chinese festival instead of "East Asian". I think all of us have agreed, there is a lack of sources, and we really can't claim that this is an overall East Asian festival. The articles for the other harvest festivals are unsourced, but if the information is accurate, there seems to be little in common between how the Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese celebrate this day.

Let me know what you all think. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Certainly it is more than just in the PRC; this has already been pointed out. It's also in Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc., and components also in Japan and Korea, each with more or fewer similarities or differences. For the Chinese one, Mid-Autumn Festival (Chinese festival) or Mid-Autumn Festival (Chinese) could work. Badagnani (talk) 19:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Technically it is celebrated almost anywhere in the world - Australia, North America, Europe, yes, even a country like South Africa[2] - basically it is celebrated anywhere there is a sizable ethnic Chinese population. This is why it is celebrated in Singapore, and I have to assume this is why it is also celebrated in Malaysia, because lacking evidence to the contrary, I don't believe Muslims in Malaysia traditionally celebrate a "Mid Autumn Festival" - they may celebrate some other harvest festival though. So unless we're ready to add all these countries and continents to the list of places where the festival is celebrated, I suggest we revise the wording to say who celebrates the festival instead of where it is celebrated.

Now going back to the issue of disambiguation, part of the reason I made this new suggestion is because, well, the Chinese version of this festival will be the only one with an article name in the format of "Mid Autumn Festival (XXX)". In light of this, I don't really see a point in making Mid-Autumn Festival the disambiguation page. If we should keep "Mid-Autumn Festival" in the article name, we should be making a page called Mid-Autumn Festival (disambiguation) instead, lacking any other articles with "Mid-Autumn Festival" in the name. As far as similarities or differences between with the Japanese and Korean festivals are concerned, like I said, the problem goes to the fact that this article currently describes a very obviously Chinese festival. Without sources to back it up, we really should not be claiming that Koreans and Japanese celebrate on this day by carrying lanterns and eating mooncakes, and recounting the rabbit on the moon myth. Sources regardless - do you know that they do this? Because I'm about 95% sure that they do not. But note that I am not suggesting we write in the article that Chinese are the only people who celebrate it the way it is described, I am saying we remain neutral as to whether or not people like the Koreans and Japanese celebrate it as it is described by the article. We don't say they do it, and we don't say that they do not - we make no mention of them.

What I'm suggesting is this:

• Remove references to people other than the Chinese as people who celebrate this festival.
• Put a disambig sentence at the top of this article: For other festivals that may be known as Mid-Autumn Festival in English, see Mid-Autumn Festival (disambiguation)
• Create Mid-Autumn Festival (disambiguation) and write it like so:

Mid-Autumn Festival is a Chinese harvest festival. Other festivals which are known by the same English name are:

• Chuseok, a Korean harvest festival
• Tsukimi, a Japanese harvest festival
• ....
• ....

Let me know if that works for everybody. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 23:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

It would be illogical to not mention that the Vietnamese celebration is very similar, that mooncakes are eaten there, and that in some other East Asian nations, Chinese-style mooncakes are eaten on their version of the Mid-Autumn Festival. Badagnani (talk) 00:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Then perhaps that information should go to mooncake instead, where it is pertinent. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 00:12, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I think this is a better proposal than the last one. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 00:12, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Badagnani - I'm opened to leaving mention of the Vietnamese in the article, but first things first, if I were to leave the Vietnamese in the article, could you agree with the suggestion I laid out in this section? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:40, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

So should I assume there's no opposition to this suggestion? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 14:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

That seems like a sensible suggestion to me. --grant (talk) 21:25, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

That seems to be the case. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 22:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, final warning. If anybody objects (maybe Badagnani) to my suggestion here, speak up. Otherwise I will be making the edit probably within a day's time. Note again that the edit will still keep mention of Vietnam and the Vietnamese in the article. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:28, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion implemented; next item of discussion - the Vietnamese

Ok, the above suggestion has been implemented. Now let's talk about the Vietnamese version of this festival. I'll start by asking the simple question - should mention of the Vietnamese remain in this article, or should we create a seperate article for the Vietnamese version of the festival? Note that both the Japanese and Korean versions have their own articles. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 01:27, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Of course the Vietnamese version should be mentioned in this article, as discussed several times above. Badagnani (talk) 01:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know much about the Vietnamese one so I'll reserve my opinion. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 23:45, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

There's no need for a separate article. Tết Trung Thu, as it is known in Vietnamese is literally Mid-Autumn Festival (Tết = festival; Trung = Middle; Thu = Autumn). yellowtailshark (talk) 04:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey everyone, i think while the different countries that celebrated the holiday has their own characteristics, but these countries were highly influenced by China in ancient times. They have adopted the Lunar Calendar, which is from China, and many of the lunar calendar holidays as well. The origin of how they were adopted might be different, but the fact that they were adopted from the Chinese calendar is a fact. So I think we should keep the different countries, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc and their holidays about mid-autumn on this page, even though its origin is Chinese. I think we should pay respect to the people who invented the holiday and all of our ancestors who promoted it and passed it on to the next generation. Thank you.

Stories of the Mid-Autumn Festival - doesn't actually say anything?

I was reading the article and I cannot help but notice how the "Stories of the Mid-Autumn Festival" section goes on and on about Houyi and Chang'e without actually explaining what it's got to do with Mid-Autumn fest. The Chinese version is a lot better at this as it's both a lot shorter and explains its link with Mid-Autumn fest (people started worshiping Chang'e and produce offerings for safety and good fortunes, which then evolved into Mid-Autumn fest). I actually don't know much about its origins and I currently do not have the time to research it. Is anyone else familiar with this and is willing to spend the time to improve this section? --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:56, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

You should have seen the section before I edited it. "Seven different versions" were told in full from beginning to end, even though the differences didn't make any difference to the basic plot. I have said before that the section could best be improved by making it shorter, not longer, but it should be noted that there are several different versions of the story.

The section actually does explain the link to the Mid-Autumn Festival, although it's a completely different explanation from the one in the Chinese version. According to the source referenced in this article, Houyi leaves his home on the sun and visits Chang'e on the moon on the night of the Mid-Autumn Festival, that's why the moon is full and bright on that night. There's the connection. The English source doesn't say anything about making offerings to Chang'e, like the Chinese one does. (Different versions of the same story, again).

Anyway, the main connection that the legend has with the festival is that people tell it every year and the image of Chang'e floating up to the moon immediately makes people think of the festival. For that reason alone a brief version of the legend should be included but I'll say again that the section could still be improved.Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 16:54, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Sources and Citations

Given the high importance placed on this article in several WikiProjects, I'm a little uncomfortable seeing the lack of sources in the construction of this article. A good portion of the article uses a newspaper article as a reference, which I feel uncomfortable with when it delves into discussions on the history of the holiday, because a newspaper, in my opinion, is suitable for an event in a recent point in time. But anything in regards to a broader historical discussion is best brought up in academic-reviewed references. There are also generalizing claims in this article which I'm going to start marking up with "Citation needed" tags if they lack references to begin the process of removing unverified claims from this article. For the stories section, while I know they have an important connection to the holiday, I'm going to look for versions of the stories that have been published and discussed in connection to the holiday. I guess I'll begin the work of finding good books on this subject, but if anyone has references they like to suggest, please list them here so I can start reading them. English-only please. e.g. (中国少数民族节日 "Festivals of China's Ethnic Minorities" by Li Xing, ISBN 7508509994) yellowtailshark (talk) 23:02, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Significance of Tangyuan to Mid-Autumn Festival

Can someone explain why tangyuan is mentioned in this article? The source materials talks about its connection to the first full moon of the Chinese calendar, rather than the 8th full moon. I didn't see any mention about the Mid-Autumn Festival in that source. yellowtailshark (talk) 22:35, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Emphasis on Mooncake

Hiuhiukwan's additions on the contemporary development of mooncakes (for example, the types of fillings) doesn't really add to the understanding of the development of the Mid-Autumn Festival; I feel much of that can be placed within the main mooncake article. If there are no objections, I'll spend time moving some of the material into the mooncake article to keep the Mid-Autumn Festival succinct and to the point. yellowtailshark (talk) 22:46, 16 December 2012 (UTC)