Talk:Mihrişah Sultan (mother of Selim III)
Latest comment: 8 years ago by Jenks24 in topic Requested move 22 December 2015
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Move discussion in progress
editThere is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Mihrimah Sultan which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 17:31, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Requested move
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. A primary topic for the base name was not established; note that move discussions are not votes, and the opinions of IP editors acting in good faith are welcome. Dekimasuよ! 05:33, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Mihrişah Valide Sultan → Mihrişah Sultan – Because another sultana was named Emine Mihrişah Sultan in Ottoman history, this page was named Mihrişah Valide Sultan. But like Gülbahar Hatun and Emine Gülbahar Hatun or Saliha Sultan and Saliha Dilaşub Sultan these two pages should be named Mihrişah Sultan and Emine Mihrişah Sultan. But I'm unable to move the page as Mihrişah Sultan redirects to Mihr-i shah which is a disambiguation page. Keivan.fTalk 16:02, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- oppose the article states her common name was Gürcü Güzeli, and you haven't said why this person should take this name, and not the other person. Why not redirect Mihrişah Sultan to Emine Mihrişah Sultan instead? Why not rename this article to Gürcü Güzeli ? -- 70.51.46.146 (talk) 04:58, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- Comment We don't count IP user's votes but I should tell that we can't move Emine Mihrişah Sultan to Mihrişah Sultan, and the reason is that her name was "Emine Mihrişah" not just "Mihrişah". And the article states that she was also known by the name "Gürcü Güzeli". It's not her common name. It's a Turkish name meaning "beautiful Georgian". Keivan.fTalk 06:19, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- Since there are many Mihrişah Sultans in Ottoman Dynasty, this page, i.e. Mihrişah Sultan PAGE should be kept as a disambiguation page...128.164.157.130 (talk) 18:41, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
- Why this page "should" be kept under the title Mihrişah Valide Sultan? There are also many Hatice Sultans, Esmehan Sultans or Fatma Sultans in Ottoman history. Only some of them were famous and influential. Among many Mihrişah Sultans that you mentioned, only "Emine Mihrişah Sultan" and this "Mihrişah Sultan" were famous and powerful as they were mothers of Ottoman Sultans. Keivan.fTalk 12:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
- But Mihrişah Valide Sultan is a Valide Sultan as well. On the contrary, Emine Mihrişah Sultan is NOT a Valide Sultan. It's good to differentiate them in this manner. Perhaps, Mihrişah Sultan might be used later for someone else. Now, if you say Mihrişah Sultan which mother you are referring to won't be so clear. In my opinion, both are equally important since they are the mothers of ottoman Sultans.
- Besides, The mother of Ottoman Sultan Mustafa III is Emine Mihrişah Sultan and
- The wife of Ottoman Sultan Mustafa III is Mihrişah Valide Sultan. One should be very careful..Both the mother and wife have the same name.
- But Mihrişah Valide Sultan is a Valide Sultan as well. On the contrary, Emine Mihrişah Sultan is NOT a Valide Sultan. It's good to differentiate them in this manner. Perhaps, Mihrişah Sultan might be used later for someone else. Now, if you say Mihrişah Sultan which mother you are referring to won't be so clear. In my opinion, both are equally important since they are the mothers of ottoman Sultans.
- Why this page "should" be kept under the title Mihrişah Valide Sultan? There are also many Hatice Sultans, Esmehan Sultans or Fatma Sultans in Ottoman history. Only some of them were famous and influential. Among many Mihrişah Sultans that you mentioned, only "Emine Mihrişah Sultan" and this "Mihrişah Sultan" were famous and powerful as they were mothers of Ottoman Sultans. Keivan.fTalk 12:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
- Since there are many Mihrişah Sultans in Ottoman Dynasty, this page, i.e. Mihrişah Sultan PAGE should be kept as a disambiguation page...128.164.157.130 (talk) 18:41, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
- Comment We don't count IP user's votes but I should tell that we can't move Emine Mihrişah Sultan to Mihrişah Sultan, and the reason is that her name was "Emine Mihrişah" not just "Mihrişah". And the article states that she was also known by the name "Gürcü Güzeli". It's not her common name. It's a Turkish name meaning "beautiful Georgian". Keivan.fTalk 06:19, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
68.100.172.139 (talk) 20:47, 25 September 2014 (UTC) 68.100.172.139 (talk) 20:35, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Then Mihrişah Sultan is both the MOTHER and the GRAND-MOTHER of Ottoman Sultan Selim III
68.100.172.139 (talk) 20:58, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Well, I didn't understand what you said exactly, but Please remember that Gülbahar Hatun also wasn't Valide Sultan. Should we move Emine Gülbahar Hatun's article to Emine Gülbahar Valide Hatun because she was a Valide but Gülbahar Hatun wasn't? You also said because Mihrişah was a Valide then we should name this article Mihrişah Valide Sultan. It's not a good reason again. Many Valide Sultans or Haseki Slutans have articles on Wikipedia but none of them have an article with a title like this. Also it isn't important that she was a mother or grandmother of an Ottoman Sultan. Many Ottoman Sultanas were mothers of Ottoman Sultans and they became grandmothers too, like Kosem Sultan. Please just talk about the title of the page here. Keivan.fTalk 13:30, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
- It's good to keep a second name as Emine Mihrişah Sultan. If a second name is not available the Mihrişah Valide Sultan is a good name, since there is no other Mihrişah Valide Sultan. This is my opinion. Perhaps, Mihrişah Valide Sultan had a second name, then they may be used together as in Emine Mihrişah Sultan. If you say just Mihrişah Sultan, again the question will be asked immediately? Who's mother? I think for this reason they use the name Mihrişah Valide Sultan.
68.100.172.139 (talk) 00:37, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
- Only by seeing the title "Valide Sultan" you understand she was the mother of Selim III!!? Interesting. Maybe someone understands whose mother she was by seeing the title "Sultan". Come on! You just want to keep this article under the title you want and because of that you say these things! Please give a clear reason that why you agree or disagree with the move. Keivan.fTalk 12:24, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
- I think you have already given the decision. There are TWO FAMOUS Mihrişah Sultans.
- Only by seeing the title "Valide Sultan" you understand she was the mother of Selim III!!? Interesting. Maybe someone understands whose mother she was by seeing the title "Sultan". Come on! You just want to keep this article under the title you want and because of that you say these things! Please give a clear reason that why you agree or disagree with the move. Keivan.fTalk 12:24, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
If you use the name Mihrişah Sultan for one of them, who will be the Mihrişah Sultan? Why? The other one has no second name, i.e. one of them is Emine Mihrişah Sultan and the other Name ? What Mihrişah Sultan. I did not like it. And what will happen to the disambig..page, it was very useful, now it will be erased. Many people does not even know anything about the 2nd Emine Mihrişah Sultan...This Diambig page for Mihrişah Sultan was very useful.. 68.100.172.139 (talk) 20:40, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
- What are you trying to say? Of course these women were famous because of that they have articles on Wikipedia. You want to say just by using the suffix "Valide Sultan" people will understand who she was and they'll also understand there was another sultana named Emine Mihrişah Sultan and won't confuse them with each other. Funny! And please don't worry about confusing these two sultans. A sentence like this will be added to the top of their articles: Not to be confused with Mihrişah Sultan/Emine Mihrişah Sultan. Keivan.fTalk 12:40, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
- First of all, carry the page Emine Mihrişah Sultan to Emine Mihrişah Kadın Efendi.
- Secondly, don't ask the same questions again and again because the answers are provided!
- This discussion is giving pumkins' taste and can't go forever.
- What are you trying to say? Of course these women were famous because of that they have articles on Wikipedia. You want to say just by using the suffix "Valide Sultan" people will understand who she was and they'll also understand there was another sultana named Emine Mihrişah Sultan and won't confuse them with each other. Funny! And please don't worry about confusing these two sultans. A sentence like this will be added to the top of their articles: Not to be confused with Mihrişah Sultan/Emine Mihrişah Sultan. Keivan.fTalk 12:40, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
68.100.172.139 (talk) 15:04, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
- You can't order me what to do. Who do you think you are? Besides, you're the one who is just repeating a sentence over ten times. Keivan.fTalk 15:42, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
- I think since you are asking the same questions over and over again, you are getting similar and more ellaborated answers, but you don't get it. At the end, you can do whatever you wanted to do. If that was the case, then why are you asking other people's opinions?
- You can't order me what to do. Who do you think you are? Besides, you're the one who is just repeating a sentence over ten times. Keivan.fTalk 15:42, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
68.100.172.139 (talk) 17:25, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
- I asked other people's opinion. But you just repeated your own statements and I was forced to give similar answers to them. Keivan.fTalk 06:42, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
- I see. No one else is expressing own opinion here.
- I asked other people's opinion. But you just repeated your own statements and I was forced to give similar answers to them. Keivan.fTalk 06:42, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
68.100.172.139 (talk) 04:58, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
- It is not your business to care about other people's opinion. You just said your own statements over a hundred times and now please wait until some other interested users come and take part in this discussion. Keivan.fTalk 23:02, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
- Comment What do the sources use more commonly? How do the sources distinguish between these women? I don't see enough here in the article or the proposed change to indicate that one should be favored over the other. Additionally, I should point out that the statement of not counting IP user's votes is not true. 1bandsaw (talk) 20:36, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
- IP users cannot vote as distinct from the essential comment: On the few occasions when decisions (usually not content-related) on Wikipedia are decided by democracy (e.g. request for adminship, elections to the arbitration committee) unregistered users may not vote; they may, however, participate in the discussions. Rather than being evidence of the untrustworthiness of unregistered users, this is in fact because of the untrustworthiness of registered users. If unregistered users were allowed to vote, disreputable registered users could log out of their accounts to vote twice (or with use of an anonymizing proxy service -- tens or hundreds of times). See also WP:MEATPUPPET, which is a type of abuse where one human registers more than one username; detecting their underlying IP addresses often reveals such schemes. This is what Wikipedia says about what IP users cannot do. Keivan.fTalk 18:47, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
- "Mihrişah Sultan" is more common and more usual. For Ottoman sultanas' articles we don't use the full titles, all of them are titled like this: "Forename" Sultan, not "Forename" Haseki Sultan nor "Forename" Valide Sultan. Also when I searched in the Google Books, I got more results about Mihrişah Sultan (14,100 results) than Mihrişah Valide Sultan (1,220 results). Keivan.fTalk 18:54, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
- IP users cannot vote as distinct from the essential comment: On the few occasions when decisions (usually not content-related) on Wikipedia are decided by democracy (e.g. request for adminship, elections to the arbitration committee) unregistered users may not vote; they may, however, participate in the discussions. Rather than being evidence of the untrustworthiness of unregistered users, this is in fact because of the untrustworthiness of registered users. If unregistered users were allowed to vote, disreputable registered users could log out of their accounts to vote twice (or with use of an anonymizing proxy service -- tens or hundreds of times). See also WP:MEATPUPPET, which is a type of abuse where one human registers more than one username; detecting their underlying IP addresses often reveals such schemes. This is what Wikipedia says about what IP users cannot do. Keivan.fTalk 18:47, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Requested move 22 December 2015
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 06:38, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Mihrişah Valide Sultan → Mihrişah Sultan – The previous moving request failed because we were unable to define the differences between this woman and another consort named Emine Mihrişah. Now it has become clear that actually Emine Mihrişah was only a "Kadinefendi" and not a "Sultan". So using the word "Valide" before "Sultan" in the main title of this page is meaningless. In accordance to the other articles about Valide Sultans, this article should be titled Mihrişah Sultan as there was no other Mihrişah Sultan as a Valide or Haseki in Ottoman history. Keivan.fTalk 13:21, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support, as per widespread use in reliable sources, and consistency.--Zoupan 05:40, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.