Talk:Mike Heath (swimmer)/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Cloudz679 (talk · contribs) 10:41, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• First mention of the name should include Mike, a la "William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton"
• Currently listed as a competition swimmer, possibly better to describe him as a freestyle swimmer such as the FA Bob Windle, who has this description
• The lead, at only one paragraph, appears on the short side
• Per MOS:LAYOUT, ""Bibliography" is discouraged because it is not clear whether it is limited to the works of the subject of the article"
• "He is the son of Edward W. Heath and Elizabeth C. Heath, and the youngest of four children." doesn't appear to be referenced
• fn3 should show "subscription required"
• " In 1982, he set a new Texas state high school record in the boys' 200-yard freestyle (1:30.53), breaking the previous record that he had set in 1980 (1:37.88)." better to state he broke the record in 1980 and again in 82, currently imbalanced
• "and a silver in individual events" seems to lack detail
• "together with fellow Americans" this is redundant as a national competition
• "He earned a third gold medal by swimming for the winning U.S. team in the preliminary heats of the 4×100-meter medley relay." That doesn't win a medal!
• "American media dubbed Heath and his relay teammates the "Gross Busters."" or, specifically, just the Los Angeles Herald Examiner
• "record-setting performance" record breaking, was it not? And which record? Olympic, World?
• What is "Pan Pac gold medal"?
• "He is married to the former Sherri-Lee Schricker" former in what sense?
• A photo isn't necessary, but would be a welcome addition. Is anything available?
• On hold while the above is addressed. C679 11:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
• No engagement from author within the specified period, closing at this time as not listed. C679 09:38, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• First mention of the name should include Mike, a la "William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton"

This is a horrid, if common practice on Wikipedia, and one that no professional encyclopedia uses (see, e.g., Encyclopedia Britannica). First, it is silly and redundant to insert a common, widely used diminutive, and obviously derivative nickname in the middle of the statement of the article subject's full legal name; this could easily be misinterpreted as meaning that "Mike" is actually part of the subject's full name, when it is not. This is also amazingly redundant and unnecessary when the article title, infobox title, and "nickname" infobox parameter all use "Mike." I don't believe that MOS:BIO requires this, either; your Bill Clinton example is one of several that show accepted, but not required Wikipedia practices at MOS:BIO. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• Currently listed as a competition swimmer, possibly better to describe him as a freestyle swimmer such as the FA Bob Windle, who has this description

"Competition swimmer" or "competitive swimmer" are the commonly used phrases to describe an athlete who engages in championship swimming, as opposed to recreational swimming, or long-distance swimming such a channel swims, etc. "Freestyle" is one of the four commonly used swimming strokes/styles, and the only one in which Heath competed in international events. I have tweaked the lead to accommodate your concern. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• The lead, at only one paragraph, appears on the short side

Yes, it was on the short side. I have expanded the lead to provide a fuller overview of the article. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• Per MOS:LAYOUT, ""Bibliography" is discouraged because it is not clear whether it is limited to the works of the subject of the article"

Section header changed to "further reading" to accommodate your concern. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:55, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• "He is the son of Edward W. Heath and Elizabeth C. Heath, and the youngest of four children." doesn't appear to be referenced

Deleted. I am unable to find a reference for the parents and family relationships. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• fn3 should show "subscription required"

Done -- "subscription required" parenthetical added to footnote. Dirtlawyer1 (talk)

• " In 1982, he set a new Texas state high school record in the boys' 200-yard freestyle (1:30.53), breaking the previous record that he had set in 1980 (1:37.88)." better to state he broke the record in 1980 and again in 82, currently imbalanced

Agreed: it could have been phrased better. I have tweaked the sentence to accommodate your concern. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• "and a silver in individual events" seems to lack detail

"At the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, he won three gold medals as a member of the winning U.S. teams in the men's relay events, and a silver in individual events." Actually, that's an introduction to all that follows: three golds in relay events, and one silver in two individual events. The detail is provided in the subsequent three paragraphs, including his performances in the 100- and 200-meter freestyle individual events. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• "together with fellow Americans" this is redundant as a national competition

It's more in the nature of a simple clarification, without saying that all modern Olympic athletes represent their country, and all athletes on a given relay team (or in other team event) must be from the same country. This was not always the case -- see the 1904 and 1908 Olympics where the IOC permitted so-called "mixed teams" composed of athletes from different countries in team events. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• "He earned a third gold medal by swimming for the winning U.S. team in the preliminary heats of the 4×100-meter medley relay." That doesn't win a medal!

Cloudz, that's historically incorrect. Starting at the 1984 Olympics, all athletes who participate as a member of a team in either a swimming or track and field relay event -- in the qualifying heats or the finals -- receive a medal if their team finished 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the final. In fact, up to eight medals have been awarded to individual relay team members in recent Olympic Games; given the depth of American and Australian swimmers, there have been instances where four completely different swimmers compete in the final than in the preliminary heats. Please review the Olympic relay event articles, which list all team participants in either the preliminary heats and final. Also, Heath's third gold medal is supported by the footnoted source. FYI, this is consistent with how Olympics athletes in other team sports --e.g., association football, basketball, hockey, water polo -- are treated. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• "American media dubbed Heath and his relay teammates the "Gross Busters." or, specifically, just the Los Angeles Herald Examiner

The phrase may or may not have been used by the Herald Examiner first, but the phrase was widely used by multiple media outlets after the 1984 Olympics. I have added a second online reference from the Los Angeles Times, which mentions world-wide use of the phrase and does not credit the Los Angeles Herald Examiner. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• "record-setting performance" record breaking, was it not? And which record? Olympic, World?

Gross set a new world record in the 200-meter freestyle at the 1984 Olympics. I have tweaked the phrase in question to clarify this. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• What is "Pan Pac gold medal"?

The Pan Pacific Championships are commonly referred to as the "Pan Pacs," with "Pan Pac" being the adjective form. The full phrase "Pan Pacific Championships" is stated in the immediately preceding sentence, but I have now replaced "Pan Pac" with the complete phrase for the sake of clarity. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• "He is married to the former Sherri-Lee Schricker" former in what sense?

A commonly used phrase to signify that a now-married woman no longer uses her maiden name. That said, I have removed the ambiguous phrase for the sake of clarity. Dirtlawyer1 (talk)

• A photo isn't necessary, but would be a welcome addition. Is anything available?

Cloudz, I have found no free-image photo after a diligent search. Heath's swimming career occurred before the advent of the internet, digital photos and camera phones, so we don't have the explosion of free-image digital photos taken by amateurs and posted on the net as we have for more recent athletes. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• On hold while the above is addressed. C679 11:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

• @Cloudz679: Thank you for your review comments above, Cloudz679. Please accept my apologies for my slow response. This GA nomination sat unreviewed for three months, and I have been scrambling to deal with other Wikipedia matters over the past week. I believe that I have now addressed all of your concerns raised above. Please advise how you would like to proceed -- whether you want me to re-list/renominate the article, or otherwise. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:57, 4 May 2015 (UTC)