Talk:Mikkel Bjørn

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Nye Borgerlige, FT-gruppe 2022.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:08, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Conflict of interest

This article about a Danish backbench MP is created and almost wholly written by User:Marginataen who has an apparent conflict of interest in the matter, cf. Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#User:Marginataen. The article has been made effectively a mouthpiece for Bjørn, quoting or reporting at length even minor details, opinions or reminiscences of Bjørn's. As stated by another editor in a comment, "Quoting every word the subject has spoken, however trivial, is one of the things that make this article seem so promotional". The article reports as well positive media extracts and characterizations of Bjørn by political colleagues while either ignoring issues for which he has been criticized in the media or, as in the case of the event of Bjørn's expulsion from the Young Conservatives, carefully framing the description to favour Bjørn's point of view. Also Bjørn's exit in January 2023 from his former party Nye Borgerlige is described purely from his own point of view. The article consequently conflicts with WP:NPOV. The editor promotes Bjørn's name and merits extensively on WP, having created the corresponding Wikipedia articles about Bjørn in all the five languages in which it presently exists. On the Danish Wikpedia site the editor has received several warnings and, later, blocks for disregarding these and continuing editing articles about too closely connected subjects, i.e. articles related to Bjørn and his former and present political affiliations. Økonom (talk) 07:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

On Friday, I'll post my considerations like Økonom just did and then I'll have hands off.

To improve the article, I think that all the minor details, statements of Bjørn's and quotations of compliments from political allies should be removed from the text together with comments about several other politicians in the text which are not directly related to Bjørn's activities, e.g. Mette Thiesen's joining DF. Controversial events like Bjørn's expulsion from Young Conservatives, exit from Nye Borgerlige and possibly his chairmanship of the Parliament's Naturalisation Committee including the issue of breach of confidentiality which received considerable media coverage and an official injunction, should be described in a balanced way drawing on mainstream media reports. The result would be a smaller, but more encyclopedic and neutral article. --Økonom (talk) 20:26, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Here are some instant fixes until Friday:

1) It shouldn't say "the same year" under "Personal life" as it was 2016 and not 2014.

2) The 2nd and 3rd sentence in under "Pernonal life" should not use the word "fulfilled". My suggestion is:

During the 2022 election campaign, Bjørn conveyed his ambition to move from Randers to Funen if he was elected to the Folketing. After the election, he thus moved to Nyborg, the island's easternmost settlement. (Comma after "Religiously")

3) Remove mention to TV 2 documentary. It's just one article about a documentary where Bjørn's thoughts about it are breifly mentioned = Example of unnecessary quoting. The prior sentence may also be removed or shortened to:

In 2022, Bjørn said about the 2019 election that he had ran with no ambition to be elected".

4) Delete Messerschmidt quote. Let reference 61 remain after 66 in the subsequent sentence.

5) Remove Bjørn's description of the DF spokemanships. Keep the source, though.--Marginataen (talk) 08:51, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

• Obviously, since I've taken admin action, I have no intention of editing the article. You're free to do so, Økonom. Note that I have reverted Marginataen's block-evading edits (which they made no secret of), as an admin action, as well as warning them that they'll be blocked if that happens again.[1] But that was a matter of principle; I have no opinion of the content of those edits. They shouldn't have been made, that's all. Bishonen | tålk 11:04, 10 June 2023 (UTC).

Considerations

I am a supporter of Bjørn but also cherish Wikipedia’s principles of neutrality and have tried to write the following by looking at the facts as objectively as possible. I do not intend to participate anymore in this talk until possibly near its end or if directly questioned. I think I am right in beliving that it should take no more than a month to remove the close connection template from this day (10 June 2023). EDIT: I've invited people from da:wp to take a look at this article.

Non-controversial improvements

Please view my IP edits: Added years to sub-headings, some rewording and grammar, removed “with a studentereksamien (high school diploma)”. It’s just another way of saying that he graduated. Change “youth leader” to “NBU chairman” in the last sentance under “Nye Borgerliges Ungdom”.

Mention of others

Malte Larsen & Mitchel Oliver Vestergaard: The sentence currently reads “Chairman of the NBU Malte Larsen and deputy chairman Mitchel Oliver Vestergaard followed Bjørn out and both joined the DF during February”. It is a fact that they both left Nye Borgerlige on the same day as Bjørn (24 January) and joined the DF during February. Oliver Vestergaard joined on 3 February and Malte Larsen on 13 February. For five years, Mikkel Bjørn was the chairman of the NBU, meaning this period currently constitutes a larger chunk of his political career than any other. These are facts.

I find it remarkable that both the chairman and deputy chairman of the NBU, the NB’s youth wing, leave with Bjørn and so does the media as well – It both tells something about the loyalty to Bjørn within the NBU and lifts it from being about merely one MF who leaves to be more about what it has been described as by reliable media sources: a struggle between opposing party fractions. In conclusion, when the whole chairmanship of the youth wing leaves in solidarity with Bjørn, I would argue that it should be mentioned. However, I would like the sentence to be rephrased to something more like, “NBU chairman Malte Larsen and deputy chairman Mitchel Oliver Vestergaard also left on the 24th and both joined the DF during the following month”.

Mette Thiesen: The sentence currently reads, “On 6 February, former Nye Borgerlige MF Mette Thiesen also joined the DF, having been an independent since November 2022”. Den Store Danske, the biggest Danish-language encyclopaedia, mentions Bjørn and Thiesen in the same context in both their Nye Borgerlige and Dansk Folkeparti article. Thiesen and Bjørn are, like the NBU chairmanship, part of the same story. Additionally, when the image shows Thiesen as a member of the DF parliamentary group, I think a little explanation is needed. However, I would like it changed to “On 6 February, former Nye Borgerlige MF Mette Thiesen also joined the DF as the party’s seventh seat”.

Controversies

KU expulsion: I’ll just what see you come up with.

NB exit: The article currently states “On 24 January, Mikkel Bjørn shifted from Nye Borgerlige to the Danish People's Party, citing internal dissension with Boje and a lack of belief in his abilities to lead”. It is a fact that this is the reason Bjørn gave. No one challenged this by, i.e., saying, “No, he actually left due to X other reason”.

Bjørn also asserted to have been threatened with expulsion if he did not support Lars Boje Mathiesen’s candidacy. The fact that he stated to have had this experience led to then-chairman Pernille Vermund giving him an apology. Folketing member Peter Seier contrasted Bjørn’s explanation and said it had been mentioned as a possibility only if Lars Boje Mathiesen was elected chairman and Bjørn then, at a later stage, would not support his chairmanship.

When reviewing the sources, Bjørn’s main reason for leaving the NB was clearly political, strategic and personal dissensions with Lars Boje Mathiesen. Instead of going into a long explanation like above, concerning this subordinate matter, I think the article is much better off simply deleting the sentence, “Furthermore, he asserted, with the support of Boje, to have been threatened with expulsion”, but letting the two sources remain.

Confidentiality: It is a fact that he has not been subject to fines, indictments or any other sort of legal penalty or repercussion. If that had been the case, I would have looked at this with completely different eyes. Økonom says an “official injunction” was given. From what I can read, the minister Kaare Dybvad gave a general indskærpelse (this means emphasis/ inculcation and is what I believe Økonom renders as injunction) to the members of the Committee. The word “official” is not used. Two of the articles mentioning it (Jyllands-Posten and Politiken) are behind paywalls. Staying open to the possibility that those two articles may include additional info, this “controversy” does appear narrowly thin and not suitable to be mentioned on Wikipedia.

More generally

Bjørn’s results in the school elections should of course be mentioned, but as it is not obvious what a school election is, this is briefly explained. It may be better to explain it using an Efn. I’m not sure. In the KU section, it is mentioned that Bjørn belonged to Hvid Fløj and the Nye Borgerlige section states “Likewise, they were also described as belonging to different wings in the party, with Bjørn on the national conservative and influence-seeking side and Boje's position outlined as liberal, anarchist and tending to conspiratorial”. I was struggling with whether to mention these two things under their current sub-headings or under “Political positions”. This is something you can think about. The third paragraph under Nye Borgerlige might need to be rewritten entirely. I added quiet long quote to the Dansk Folkeparti section. I found this to be justified because a party shift is a big deal. A better quote might exit, and you may end up concluding that no quote is needed.

The political positions section was very difficult to write. I do like the idea of starting it with “A self-described conservative” like it’s the case in Bernie Sanders’ article, just with “democratic socialist”. What is currently in sources nr. 19 and 29 can be used here.

I think it should still mention Søren Krarup, Jesper Langballe and Roger Scruton. The question of what it would be if he could change one thing is, IMO, such a profound question, and I think the quote should remain. It shouldn’t mark the end of the article, though. Finally, I would like the point about Christian X's royal emblem to stay one way or the other, as it is good to mention with his support for the monarchy. More importantly, he wears it on four of the images in the article, therefore it would be nice to tell the reader what it is when a reliable source exists.--Marginataen (talk) 13:57, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

This article has been marked with a NPOV template.

Stowgull, Oleryhlolsson, Simeon, Arjayay, C.Fred, Braganza, Sam Sailor, Penguin, KylieTastic, Rodw Marginataen (talk) 17:23, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

A more neutral text

To sum up, after the article's conflict of interest issue was raised on this talk page, cf. above, the creator and main contributor of the article User:Marginataen has been blocked from editing the article because of his promotional editing, cf. User_talk:Marginataen#Page_block. A few days ago I made some suggestions for making the article more encyclopedic and neutral, and today I have carried out the suggestions in order to create a more neutral text. I have removed several passages which seem promotional or which rely on sources which are primary and/or non-independent, as well as some minor details. I have tried to rely more exclusively on independent analyses from mainstream media, though this has not been possible in all cases. The article is now closer to the corresponding one at the Danish Wikipedia site. I considered adding a paragraph on Bjørn's chairmanship of the Naturalisation Committee, which seems to be the single political issue for which he has received most media attention, apart from his change of political allegiance, but left it out for now. It may still be relevant, however. Økonom (talk) 20:35, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is frankly the result of all the people coming together. I think it would be more honorable of Økonom, who I do not consider a neutral part in this, to revert his edit and give the other people at least a week to comment before deleting half the article. Marginataen (talk) 21:58, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Marginataen, the people you pinged here have had a week now, and none of them have turned up at the article or on this talkpage. (Always excepting Økonom, who was already here.) I'm afraid it doesn't look like interest at the Danish Wikipedia is as great as you hoped. Bishonen | tålk 08:33, 17 June 2023 (UTC).

Thank you, Økonom, for the changes made in Special:Diff/1159513646, I support them. Sam Sailor 15:57, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Sockpuppet edit

I have reverted this edit made by a sockpuppet for the topic banned COI user. Økonom (talk) 17:31, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

It's not a sockpuppet, but the account I've begun to use for politics related stuff on Commons. After I saw that new portraits images of all the DF member, I just brainlessly changed them on all eight pages where I should have given special thought to this one. I am real sorry and don't wanna make a hiss about it.--Marginataen (talk) 19:16, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Evading a topic ban by using eihter multiple accounts or IP addresses is sockpuppetry, as I believe you are aware, having received many warnings and later blocks for several instances of sockpuppetry on the Danish Wikipedia, and several warnings on the English Wikipedia as well, cf. here and here. --Økonom (talk) 09:04, 16 December 2023 (UTC)