Talk:Milk War

Requested move 18 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Nnadigoodluck🇳🇬 16:27, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

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2009 Russian ban on Belarusian dairy products → Milk War – Per WP:COMMONNAME, "Milk War" is the typical name used for this trade dispute. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 14:53, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

• Support Seems reasonable to me. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 22:26, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:13, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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Flags of Russia and Belarus

• ... that Russia and Belarus (flags pictured) fought a Milk War in June 2009?
  • ALT1:... that when political tensions rise between Russia and Belarus (flags pictured), Russia has banned Belarusian dairy products due to alleged "health hazards"?
  • ALT2:... that Russia began the Milk War of June 2009 after Belarus (both flags pictured) refused to take-up a $500 million loan?

• Reviewed: Dua Saleh and Super Lemon Haze. 16:23, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

5x expanded by Nice4What (talk). Self-nominated at 16:16, 19 February 2020 (UTC).

• General eligibility:

• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems: - Doesn't appear to have been expanded five-fold.

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - Not adequately cited in the case of ALT0.
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - Instead of mentioning the month in ALT0 and ALT2, I suggest mentioning the length of the "war" alongside the year. The wording of ALT1 is a bit weak and could be changed to mention the repeated nature of the bans. ALT2 uses a problematic phrase ("take-up") that needs replacement.

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: The five-fold expansion is the biggest hang-up with this nomination. A shame, given how interesting the premise is. SounderBruce 07:42, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: Should be five-fold expansion when excluding the lede, which doesn't count for character count anyways. Using this tool, the article increased from 2,641 characters to 15,059 characters by the end of February 19 (the day I nominated the article for DYK). The article is now at 17,700 characters. Also proposing ALT 3: "... that a trade dispute between Russia and Belarus (flags pictured) over dairy products has been called the Milk War?" and ALT 4: "... that in the lead-up to the Milk War, Russia allegedly offered Belarus (both flags pictured) $500 million to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia?" Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 15:37, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

The fivefold expansion requirement does not exclude the lead. The previous version had 2,699 characters of readable prose, and the latest revision has 11,062 characters of readable prose, which falls short of the 13,495 characters needed to fulfill the fivefold criteria. Also, I don't think ALT3 is interesting and ALT4 only uses allegations, which I don't find to be solid enough. SounderBruce 20:39, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

• ALT0a: ... that Russia and Belarus (flags pictured) fought an eleven-day Milk War?
• ALT1a: ... that Russia has repeatedly banned Belarusian dairy products (both flags pictured) due to alleged "health hazards" during heightened political tensions?
• ALT2a: ... that Russia began an eleven-day Milk War after Belarus (both flags pictured) refused to take a $500 million loan?

@SounderBruce: I'd still argue in favor of ALT4 since it's pretty apparent that Russian denials are often false, but I can understand why you wouldn't want to use it. I'm not sure if I'm using the word count right, but I've substantially expanded the article since the last revision. Has it met the five-fold threshold yet? Thank you. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 23:21, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@Nice4What: The article still falls short at 12,868 characters according to the DYKcheck script, which I recommend you use. The ALT0a/1a/2a are fine, but we really don't need extra alternatives right now when the main issues is the article's length. SounderBruce 01:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: DYKcheck says the article should be good now. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 01:57, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: Do you mind finishing your review? Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 20:12, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

• The article is now at a sufficient length. Blurbs for ALT0a and ALT2a are good to go, while the others I would prefer not to see move forward. While the article was lengthened after the seven-day deadline, since this review began a bit late I think this should be an WP:IAR kind of scenario. SounderBruce 05:58, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Milk War/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Reidgreg (talk · contribs) 15:48, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Review to be forthcoming; please hold edits for now. – Reidgreg (talk) 19:41, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

FYI, I'm about halfway through the sources. – Reidgreg (talk) 22:43, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Criterion

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Some close paraphrasing and minor points of verification

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Should meet the GA criteria with a little attention. Passed GA.

Review comments

Prose

• Russia allegedly attempting to pay Belarus $500 million should specify US$ or other, as appropriate. (First mention in body is sufficient, it doesn't have to be every time.) Confirmed
• Following the Russo-Georgian War, the disputed regions Can this be stated as "the 2008 Russo-Georgian War" to give a clear timeline to the paragraph? Confirmed
• Russian officials denied Lukashenko's claim. Russia froze the loan To avoid repetition with the preceding sentence, how about changing to: Russian officials denied this and froze the loan Confirmed
• In March 2014, following the Russian annexation of Crimea from Ukraine, Lukashenko equated Belarus's stance towards recognizing Crimea's disputed status to its stance towards Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Lukashenko stated, "As for the recognition and non-recognition, Crimea, just like Ossetia, Abkhazia and other regions, is not an independent state. Today Crimea is [de facto] part of the Russian Federation. No matter whether you recognize it or not, the fact remains." With the first sentence serving as an introduction, I think you could remove the underlined part. Confirmed

Referencing & verifiability

Some primary sources for dates and quotations, but nothing controversial.

• "RFERL" – Radio Free Europe, June 2009
  • The Ministry of Foreign Affairs also announced Lukashenko's intentions to boycott in the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO) summit held in Moscow. Source doesn't specifically name this security summit in Moscow. Suggest adding "reuter-1" or another source which gives the organization's name. Confirmed
  • Others good
• "Kyiv" – Kyiv Post, June 2009
  • In the past, Russia has banned meat products from Poland, wine from Moldova, canned fish from Latvia and most agricultural products from Georgia when political tensions with these countries were high. Close to source: Russia has in the past banned meat products from Poland, wine from Moldova and mineral water from Georgia when political tensions with these countries were high.
    • Suggest paraphrase: At times of strained relations, Russia has previously banned... Confirmed
  • However, a Belarusian official stated that it was difficult to understand why the products "were banned in such as loud and demonstrative way" considering that they had never been cleared for export to Russia anyways. Close to source: "That’s why it is difficult to understand why these products were banned in such as loud and demonstrative way," he said, declining to name the products.
    • Suggest expanding quotation: However, a Belarusian official stated that it was "difficult to understand why these products were banned in such as loud and demonstrative way", reflecting that Russia had never approved them for import. Confirmed
• "Time" – "Relations Sour", February 2020
  • Belarus joined the Eastern Partnership, an initiative for strengthening economic and political ties between the European Union and six post-Soviet states. close to source: created last year to strengthen economic and political ties between Europe and six former Soviet states. Suggest paraphrase: to improve economic and political relations between the EU and six post-Soviet states. Confirmed
• New York Times – "NATO Steps Back", May 2014
• "NYT1" – 'Milk War' Strains, June 2009
  • confirmed seven citations.
  • Lukashenko clarified that despite his boycott, Belarus would still be participating in the CSTO. I'm not seeing this in the source. Is it in another source? removed from article
• "Politico" – "The milk split by the milk war", June 2009
  • 11 citations verified
  • that the loan would be delivered in Russian rubles. perhaps delivered → made or paid, to paraphrase a bit. Confirmed
  • During Putin's visit to Minsk, Russia expressed interest in the privatizing some of Belarus's major milk producers. close to source: During Putin's visit, Russia also expressed interest in the privatisation of some of Belarus's major milk producers. Suggest paraphrase: During the visit, Russia also sought to have major Belarusian dairy producers privatised. Confirmed
  • While going through the sources, I noticed some variance in the loan figures (though it might be that there were different loans). I'm not sure that this is a problem, but you might want to review these. (If there is a disagreement among reliable secondary sources, this can be discussed in a footnote.) Following the cancellation of Russia's loan, Belarus secured a $1 billion loan from the International Monetary Fund instead. This uses Ref "Time" (16 June) which says Belarus secured an additional $1 billion on a $2.4 billion IMF loan. Ref "Politico" (24 June) says that the IMF loan immediately after the cancellation of Russia's loan was €1 billion.
• "reuter-1"
  • verified two citations
• "NYT" - New York Times "Russia Ends Dairy Ban" June 17, 2020
  • verified two citations, quotation
• UIIA "Belarus strongman" June 2009
  • Verified.
  • In the citation, should The Sunday Times be in |agency=The Sunday Times?
• Reuters – "Belarus leader may snub" June 13, 2009
  • verified quote
• "Uzb" – "Milk war and hot war", December 2009
  • verified three citations
  • The fourth statement cited to this is The amount of Belarusian dairy products allowed to be imported into Russia was later doubled. What the source says is "Later on, the list of Belarusian milk products again, allowed to be imported to Russia, was doubled." I'm not certain, but I think this refers to the number of dairy products (e.g. the 1,200 products banned), not the quantity of them. If it is the number of products rather than the quantity, suggest: amount → number Confirmed
  • Might want to have the citation point to the document itself: {{cite journal |url=https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Archil_Chochia/publication/322231224_Milk_war_and_Hot_war_different_wars_-_same_goals/links/5a4cd5ff458515a6bc6d3c22/Milk-war-and-Hot-war-different-wars-same-goals.pdf |first=Archil|last=Chochia|date=2009-12-01|title='Milk war' and 'Hot war': different wars – same goals|pages=90–103|journal-European Union: Current Political and Economic Issues |publisher=Tallinn University of Technology via [[ResearchGate]]|ed=Kirch, Aksel|9ISBN=978-9949-430-35-2}} Confirmed
• San Diego Tribune – June 17, 2009
• Eurasianet – July 23, 2009
• "UNPO"
• Voice of America – "Belarus Defends Russian Recognition", November 1
• "Study" – Radio Free Europe, "Georgia Asks Belarus", November 18
• "Cable" - Eurasianet "Lukashenko Wants Credit", December 20, 2010
• "Crimea" – president.belarus (primary source)
• belsat.eu "Georgia still paying"
• "Bruise" – New Republic "Tiny Pacific Nation"
  • verified three citations
  • In October 2011, Tuvalu recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but later withdrew recognition in May 2014 after Georgia offered Tuvalu $250,000. The source says: "Tuvalu followed suit on Monday. Gulbis said Tuvaluan officials contacted him toward the end of last year to say that Georgia had offered $250,000" The piece is dated April 2, 2014, and the preceding Monday would have been March 31. So I think change May → March. Confirmed
• "Fee" – Jamestown Foundation "Venezuela's Multibillion Dollar"
• Reuters "Pacific island recognizes"
  • In December 2009, Nauru became the fourth state to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent, allegedly for a $50 million investment from Russia. I think it might be good if it's clear that the allegation came from Georgia and not from the source. Suggest something like "which Georgia alleged was in return for a $50 million investment" Confirmed
• The Diplomat "Checkbook Diplomacy"
• BBC "Syria recognizes Russian-backed Georgia regions"
• Bloomberg "Potash Dispute"
  • In August 2013, Uralkali CEO Vladislav Baumgertner was arrested in Minsk for involvement in a criminal scheme after Belarus invited him for talks. Should there be a little more context that this is a Russian company, and that the criminal scheme is alleged? Suggest: In August 2013, Vladislav Baumgertner, CEO of Russian potash producer Uralkali, was arrested in Minsk for involvement in an alleged criminal scheme after Belarus invited him for talks. Or: was invited for talks in Minsk and was subsequently arrested for involvement in an alleged criminal scheme. Confirmed
• "RT"
• "Lithuania" – Radio Free Europe, "Russia Suspends Dairy Imports"
  • The ban was seen as an effort to put political pressure on Lithuania for assuming the rotating Presidency of the Council of the European Union and planning to host an EU summit that would offer closer economic ties to several post-Soviet states. The source doesn't connect Lithuania's assuming the EU presidency to the ban. Lithuania assumed the presidency in July, 3 1/2 months earlier. Suggest: The ban was seen as an effort to put political pressure on Lithuania, which then held the Presidency of the Council of the European Union, for planning to host an EU summit that would offer closer economic ties to several post-Soviet states. Confirmed
• Moscow Times "Russia Prepared to Cease"
  • Russia lifted the ban in December 2013 after Lithuania threatened to file a complaint to the World Trade Organization about a "milk war". This source is good for the WTO complaint, but the source (and title) says that Russia was preparing to lift the ban, not that they actually had. Not what I would call a reliable source, but this gb times story indicates a deal to lift the embargo on January 9, 2014. Found two better sources BRICS and TASS which say that restrictions on imports were lifted Jan 9, but individual manufacturers were being certified on a case by case basis (into February at least). I'd suggest adding the TASS source (or a better one if you can find one) and changing December 2013 → January 2014. Confirmed
• "BRT" – "Russia Bands Dairy Imports from Belarus"
  • verified four citations to source
  • Russia has accused Belarus of taking advantage of this economic situation by importing products of inferior quality, while Belarusian producers have accused Russia of deliberately placing obstacles for them. Close to source: Russia's veterinary services have accused Minsk of taking advantage of this to import products of inferior quality, while Belarusian producers accuse the Russian authorities of deliberately placing obstacles in their path. Suggest paraphrase: Russia has accused Belarus of exploiting this situation by making substandard goods for export to Russia, while Belarusian producers say that Russia has intentionally created trade barriers. Confirmed
• "Cheese" Daily Reporter "Russia lifts ban"
• "Digest" Belarus Digest "Shrinking economic freedom"
• "Embargo" Realnoe Vremya "The reduction in dairy imports"
• "Tatar" realnoe vremya "Russian boycott of belarusian dairy"
  • verified three citations
  • Deputy of the State Duma Ayrat Khairullin raised his suspicions that dairy products were being smuggled to Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, citing that more dairy products had been imported from Belarus in the past three months than what Belarus can produce in a year. In the source, Khairullin says that dairy products in transit (through Russia) to Kazakhstan and Krygyzstan do not reach their destination countries but are instead taken to dairy plants in Russia, illegally as a black market. Suggest rephrasing: Ayrat Khairullin raised his suspicions that Belarusian dairy products which entered Russia for delivery to Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan were instead being illegally delivered to Russian plants, citing irregularities in transport. Confirmed
• "Address" Radio Free Europe "Belarusian Leader Has Harsh Words"
• "UAWire" "Russia continues to restrict"

Media

Six images, each tagged with a CC licence. (Also some flag icons in infobox and sidebar which do not seem overused.)

Other areas to improve

Although not part of the GA criteria, here are some other areas you might eventually want to improve:

• Some of the sources are 'breaking news' media reports and ideally these should be replaced with in-depth published sources, as these become available. It's not a big deal, and not even required at FA, but 'breaking news' sources work with the best available information at the time, while later high-quality sources tend to have a better perspective.

General discussion

A really nice article, interesting subject, well sourced, and with a good amount of relevant images. Really quite good, and I'm not finding a whole lot to suggest for improvement. I feel it'll meet the GA criteria with a few changes, and I tried to make suggestions above. I'm putting the review "on hold" for seven days to allow for edits and discussion. Please let me know here if you have any questions. – Reidgreg (talk) 15:48, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

@Reidgreg: Sending a ping just in case, but I've made some edits based on your suggestions above. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 14:28, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I knew you'd made some changes but I didn't know you were finished. I'll take a look after I finish another review I'm writing up. – Reidgreg (talk) 21:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I've confirmed your changed to the article. You've addressed all of my points and I'm satisfied that the article meets the GA criteria. Passing GA! – Reidgreg (talk) 16:50, 11 May 2020 (UTC)