Talk:Minnie Miñoso

Miñoso's birth year

There is now some dispute among baseball researchers as to whether Miñoso was born in 1922 or 1925. It has not yet been resolved satisfactorily. -- Couillaud 00:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

He was born November 29, 1922. He said this when asked at a baseball card show in Chicago. He shaved three years off his true age to appear to be a better prospect as was common at that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:d:a500:2a1:d93b:a427:b670:6bbf (talk • contribs) 05:36, 2 March 2015‎ (UTC)

Minoso was born on November 29, 1923 according to his "Republic of Cuba" signed Drivers License, 25 May 1951, "Date of Birth Nov. 29, 1923". "Age 27".https://www.hakes.com/Auction/ItemDetail/84257/MINNIE-MINOSO-CUBAN-DRIVERS-LICENSE-CADILLAC-LUBE-AGR

His first Topps baseball card(s) 1952-195 also says November 29, 1923. http://www.wheatlandauctionservices.com/ItemImages/000002/7_446_Minnie-Minoso-Signed-1952-Topps-Baseball-Rookie-Card-b_lg.jpeg

The Minoso Memorial #9 baseball card given out to visitors by his family at his church remembrance says, 1924-2015; it does not say "1925". https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8630/16530606207_d065a3b5fc_b.jpg http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8660/16550308248_6b56858ecf_m.jpg YahwehSaves (talk) 06:53, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

His own words was that he was born November 29,1922. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.102.141.170 (talk) 11:43, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Just revisiting this topic. I think that the November 29, 1925 DOB is appropriate given this SI entry, but should we add a footnote indicating that sources vary between 1922 and 1925, and that the family and White Sox support the 1924 DOB? I don't know that we can give any weight to primary sources like Cuban DLs, especially since Minoso seems to have had some incentive to conceal his true DOB at that time. EricEnfermero (Talk) 05:14, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

He was born November 29, 1922 per his own words from his own mouth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:805:4201:1737:80A2:68C4:716F:62DE (talk) 05:14, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Which words are we talking about? He was pretty clear in his autobiography that the 1922 date had been wrong the whole time and that he was born in 1925. This is clearly explained in the SI feature linked above. The question is not what he said - the question is which one of the many things he said (1922, 1923, 1925, don't want to talk about it) or his family/team said (1924) should we believe? EricEnfermero (Talk) 05:30, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

He was born November 29, 1922 per his own words at a Alumni White Sox dinner. He was told to claim 1925 to appear to be a better prospect when he started professional baseball. Unless he lied to a room full of 200 White Sox fans for no logical reason this is his real birth date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:805:4201:1737:F18B:49A4:E822:8EE2 (talk) 04:40, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it's our job to judge his statements as lies - some of the conflicting stories could be instances where he simply got a little confused and misspoke. The problem with original research (like a statement we hear someone make in public but which isn't published) is that it could be misheard. We know that his documentation said 1922 early on and that he claimed 1925 later in his book, so it just doesn't fit that he was doing it to appear a better prospect. Claiming 1925 after you retire doesn't help your value as a player. If he did not lie to 200 White Sox fans about 1922, then he lied (or made a mistake or whatever) for the presumably thousands of people who would read the 1925 date in his book. Neither case makes logical sense, so I don't think logic helps us a great deal. EricEnfermero (Talk) 04:59, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I was setting in the front row at the Alumni dinner when he said clearly he was born in 1922. If you want to post WRONG information with his WRONG birthdate feel free. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:805:4201:2640:1824:95A6:66D1:14BA (talk) 14:39, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Spelling and pronunciation

This is an English-language encyclopedia, written in the English alphabet, and there is no place for words with tildes, "ñ", and other diacritical marks. We don't have those in the English, and they don't belong here. Also, in MINOSA's whole baseball career, the tilde was never in any newspaper stories about baseball, or in the box scores. Also, the pronunciation of his name in some other language (such as Spanish) is irrelevant. Once again, the American English pronunciation is what is relevant, and his name was pronounced "Minosa" countless times by baseball radio and television broadcasters.72.146.52.221 (talk) 16:05, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

You are entitled to your opinion, but many believe that there is a place for words with accent marks, especially since Miñoso's name is not in English. You may argue that you do not feel they belong here, and you may argue what is relevant or what is not, but that should be a matter of discussion among interested editors and then decided upon by consensus instead of being by your personal fiat. If you feel such a fundamental change is necessary, you should state your reasons (as you have here), but making unilateral changes of this nature is not how we do it here. -- Couillaud (talk) 08:28, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree completely with Couillaud. While this is the English language wikipedia, that generally refers to writing articles in a language other than English. Names have generally been exempted. No one would go to the Pablo Picasso page and insist that it be renamed "Paul Picasso". No one should be going to the Roberto Clemente page and insist (as many Pitttsburgh papers and sports casters did) that it be retitled "Robby Clemente" ..... and given that "Muhammad Ali" is definitely not English in origin, I would think that anyone trying to retitle that article "Cassius Clay" would have the wrath of the community pour down on them.

The naming conventions that the anon editor is referring to come form a time when some in the media wanted to make people sound "more American" and less "foreign". I'm not sure at all, but this may partially stem from the fact that printing in the United States may not have had the ability to easily print diacritical marks. Thus, in a newspaper it is printed "Minoso", and people start mispronouncing it because of that. LonelyBeacon (talk) 16:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I was unaware that it was spelled with the n-tilde until I came here, shameful as that is. I always heard in pronounced "Minoso", and especially with the nickname "Minnie", as opposed to, say "Minnyee". But typically the Hispanic players are now shown correctly, on sources such as ESPN, which is an English-speaking (or at least sports-English-speaking) TV channel, so there's no harm showing the n-tilde. It's also the case that in America, lots of times the tilde was left off even when it was known to belong. An example is "manana" for "mañana". The difference is that everyone know it was pronounced "mañana". The case with "Miñoso" was not so clear. There is a problem, though, and it's not over bias against "ñ" - it's over "reliable sources". MLB.com spells it "Minoso". Baseball-reference.com spells it "Minoso". So do the other stats pages. ESPN, despite its use of accent marks in general, still spells it "Minoso". In fact, only one of the external links in the article says "Miñoso". So when "reliable sources" disagree, how do we know which one is right? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:18, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

In 2000, Tony Perez was inducted into the baseball hall of fame in Cooperstown. His acceptance speech was broadcast live on the radio, and he told of his great appreciation for Minnie Minoso. He distinctly pronounced it as 'Minyoso' (sorry, I don't know how to display an 'n' with a tilde above it in Wikipedia.). There is no doubt in my mind about that part ofthe pronunciation. --Whether the first vowel is best represented phonetically one way or another, I leave to the professional linguists. I might add, I had the pleasure of seeing him play a few games for the Cardinals and he was still very fast at age 36+, a fine, always hustling player. Publius3 (talk) 06:04, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

This needs further discussion. As noted above, when he was active, his name was spelled and pronounced 'Minoso' in the US, where he was active. I think this points toward that use in Wikipedia, given Wikipedia's name policy. Is there any other relevant material, e.g., a death certificate? The 'Chicago Tribune' obituary, written recently enough to accept 'foreign' spellings (https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/white-sox/chi-white-sox-great-minnie-minoso-dead-at-90-20150301-story.html) . In any case, our article is currently inconsistent (due to a typo?), with at least one case of 'Minoso': " Minoso had his last great season in 1960"

Nickname

I recently heard a reporter state that Minoso doesn't like his nickname, "Minnie" as it was a girl's name. Any truth to this? 70.88.213.74 (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

7 time "All-Star" (9 AS games)

Moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball § YahwehSaves

 – —Bagumba (talk) 23:20, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Minoso was selected to be a Major League "All-Star", "7 times" not 9 times. Was on AL Roster 7 times.

No. From 1959-1962 there were 2 AS games. Minoso played in both in 1959 and 1960. Nine is correct.--Yankees10 22:45, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes.: Official Minnie Minoso Site (Being updated) ("Achievements" - "7-time All-Star") and elsewhere has him as a "7-time All-Star".
Minoso is a 7-time Major League All-Star (selected 7 times/7 MLB AL Rosters). They go by year AS, not by AS games played --YahwehSaves (talk) 11:09, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A point of explanation: For the years 1959 to 1962, all players named to the first All-Star Game were held over for the second, with a handful of pitchers added to the roster for the second contest. It was impossible for a position player to be named to one game and not the other (except in cases of injury replacements), and there certainly was no notion of dropping someone from the team for the second game. So no one was actually selected more than once per year. MisfitToys (talk) 23:38, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Golden Era HOF ballots

Need a separate article on the Golden Era selection process, or perhaps some detail at the HOF article. There is no need to go into intricate detail about the Golden Era selection process on the biographies of individual players. We really don't need to know how many Golden Era votes Jim Kaat got on Miñoso's article, for example. EricEnfermero ^HOWDY! 03:11, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I shortened it as you suggested. The election was important enough to show all 10 candidates in 2011 I think. Not all the candidates are former players. Someone had put Golden Era Veterans Committee (No such name) instead of Golden Era Committee at Wikipedia (article titles) and that should be corrected there whcih has a lot of the information you mention. YahwehSaves (talk) 04:01, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree that the election is important, but in keeping with summary style, I just think almost all of that info would be better kept at the Golden Era article. I moved that article to reflect the name Golden Era Committee, which is what I found at almost all of the sources that discussed it. EricEnfermero ^HOWDY! 04:24, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I also removed the 2011 election list and just mentioned Ron Santo. Thanks for changing Golden Era Veterans Committee to Golden Era Committee. YahwehSaves (talk) 04:40, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

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