Talk:Miskawayh

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 22:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

islamic natural selection?????

here's little biology lesson for whoever writes this nonense about nautral selection and evoltuion on islamic thought. what is natural selection, well what darwin told is this species exist within a particular environment, then ones that posses certain charateristics, that is ones they are born with will be able to feed themselves better and survive and reproduce more then the species that do not have those traits, hence the fundemental principle of evolution though natural selection, nautral selection acts on individuals, but only populations can evolve, as Darwin said those species are naturally selected. So where does this apply here. Evolutionary thought has existed for millienia, what Darwin did is he provided us with the framework of how evolution happened, natural selection, as mentioned above. Nowhere has any muslim philosopher provided an ounce of a description of evolution through natural selection. all they have done is implied that certain species evoloved from others., but thats not natural selection. Natural selection is the framework within which evolution happens. Last and most importantly, Darwin went about scientifically proving natural selection, through his studies of species on the Galápagos Islands. He did not invoke God or any angles in his thesis, since thats not science, but mere religious philosophy, and he thesis consisted of several books, not a couple of paragraphs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.181.171 (talk) 08:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

All ideas are evolutionary, so to try to imply that Darwin had the idea of natural selection all by himself is ridiculous. It was the Mu'tazilite muslim and Greek philosophers’ works that were translated into Latin and read by the Europeans which made these scientific advances possible. That has to be duly acknowledged. Why would Islamic philosophers’ reference to God detract from their mechanistic explanations, especially if they are correct... "Nowhere has any muslim philosopher provided an ounce of a description of evolution through natural selection." This is such an unfortunate comment. Al Jahiz (d 869) for example talked about natural and environmental factors forcing species to adapt themselves and get transformed all for the sole purpose of survival (which he calls Existence) http://www.salaam.co.uk/knowledge/al-jahiz.php). Of course it was Darwin and Wallace who firmly established the idea of natural selection but that does not mean that the idea or its precursors were not proposed before by other thinkers. Utnasudra (talk) 19:54, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not what you would call a 'wiki writer', but upon seeing this I had to say something. First, by reading this article you are underthe impression that Miskawayh was a proto-Darwin. He wasn't. Instead of a quote from a single book written by an Islamic scholar, why not expand the article on Miskawayh's other teachings which so seem to support mainstream islamic views. http://www.ulum.nl/a125.htm suggests he simply used writings taken from early scholars - it needes a mention. If people who support Darwin have to suffer references to Miskawayh, then why not him to his predecessors. Also, if Evolution was that widespread knowledge in Islam, then why is it not mainstream in Islam today? http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=v2Ba4oEMEuAC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=%22al-Fawz+al-Asghar%22&source=bl&ots=E3Kwg67ozf&sig=Yz638T_Y2hDzhLUOIT5HrJyq0p0&hl=en&ei=se0US8CwIsKL4Qasvq3IBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22al-Fawz%20al-Asghar%22&f=false Darwin left any creationism out of his theory (no 'god did it' in his argument). His books shocked the world and overturned the status quo. He had proof, not just speculation. Last of all, http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/10/25/in_the_muslim_world_creationism_is_on_the_rise/?page=full if Muslims really did hold the evolution theory we wouldn't have reports like this. So Miskawayh cleary wasn't taken so seriously, which is a shame because he was on the right track. (DarkMithras 1st December 2009)

As there is no response, I take it I can rest my case [DarkMithras] 31/3/2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.100.246.254 (talk) 23:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)