Talk:Miss Cosmo 2024

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Crimea

Before adding Crimea please establish via high quality sources, where the Crimean pageant organisers are based. There is a difference between the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, and the Republic of Crimea (Russia). You must use the correct name, not what pageant organisers use (Same as North Korea or South Korea, not Korea). Note that in either case, the flags are subnational and should not be used.Sciencefish (talk) 08:15, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Crimea is part of Russia, greetings 178.51.64.144 (talk) 14:22, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

That was not the question. Sciencefish (talk) 14:29, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

• Big agreement with Sciencefish on this. Especially, I see three rational possibilities:

Crimea status vis-a-vis flags

Row index	Header text	Flag is appropriate?
1	Crimea is part of Ukraine	No (MOS:NONSOVEREIGN)
2	Crimea is part of Russia	No (MOS:NONSOVEREIGN)
3	Crimea is an independent nation	Yes

Hopefully we can all agree on this truth table. I don't think anybody is arguing for row 3, especially with the anon's comment "Crimea is part of Russia" regardless of whether that is something English Wikipedia community would endorse. Am I missing any facts or interpretations of the Manual of Style guidelines? ☆ Bri (talk) 15:54, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, now a mobile editor who probably is not aware of this conversation is adding various sub-national flags back in. I'm probably going to ask for admin help on this. ☆ Bri (talk) 16:43, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

“Big agreement with Sciencefish on this.”

Crimea was annexed by Russia ten years ago. See Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation. Like I know we have to be neutral, but if Crimea is part of Russia or Ukraine, then it is Russia. Even Donetsk, Luhansk and other oblasts in Ukraine are now part of Russia. 178.51.64.144 (talk) 17:01, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Anon, you are confusing me now. Are you agreeing with me and Sciencefish that there should be no flags on this row? ☆ Bri (talk) 17:55, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Just answer my question on my talk page WinterSummer11 (talk) 18:23, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Now I'm even more confused. Were you logged out when you posted to this talkpage before? ☆ Bri (talk) 18:53, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I have seen you edited on "Miss Universe 1952" page. Why didn't you delete the flag of Puerto Rico or all the debuts of their first season ? I can't understand why other pages of pageants can add these debuts or flags but this page can't ? We had edited it normally until you came here 2 days ago and deleted all, but if i have the mistakes that other pages did not have i can accept it. But no, other pages also did it why didn't you come there and fix? for example the Miss Universe page. Why didn't you come and fix them too on other pages like Miss Universe or Miss Grand, Miss Earth, Miss Supranational ? They also have the same problems. WinterSummer11 (talk) 18:58, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it's best to keep this discussion focused on this article. We can improve it without worrying about the others right now. Two editors have now engaged you with the flag related policy or consensus guidelines. You have not spoken to your acceptance of the guidelines. How about starting with a "yes I agree" to that? ☆ Bri (talk) 20:40, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

It is just because you could not even answer to my question on my talk page. You came and asked me first and then i have answered but you did not replied. "Two editors have now engaged you with the flag related policy or consensus guidelines" ? only you ! and you did not even answer my question. How can i agree ? WinterSummer11 (talk) 20:54, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

So don't want to discuss with me about this"Crimea" just come to my page and talk to me about this "flag" issue, just fix all the flag at all other pageant pages (for example Miss Universe) and also the debuts in the first season. Not only on this page. WinterSummer11 (talk) 20:57, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I mean Crimea gained independence and it stayed for almost a month. Then it was annexed by Russia. Now if the Crimea pageant organization wants to use “Republic of Crimea” for neutrality ok. But the Republic of Crimea is part of Russia for now. 178.51.64.144 (talk) 20:54, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that the majority of these competitions are organised by franchised companies, not national governments, and are choosing in most cases to use their countries. In some cases they are they aren't countries at all, and the organisers use older inappropriate names such as Persia. Sciencefish (talk) 16:55, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

The designated delegate of Miss Cosmo Crimea, is the winner of Miss Tourism Crimea (according to her bio), wherein as per checking the organization's official account, it has a flag of Russia at their bio. Although the point is uncertain due to geopolitics (on whether Crimea is part of Russia, Ukraine, or neither), but as per the question on where the pageant organizers are based, the answer would be Russia. See their bio here: [1] Japemizen627 (talk) 04:50, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

I can feel that we're having some difficulty resolving this between the three (or is it four?) editors involved. Have requested input from a 3rd party. ☆ Bri (talk) 21:08, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request (Disagreement on whether to include flags for Crimea and other subnational entities):

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Miss Cosmo 2024 and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

The political status of Crimea is unambiguously a contentious issue. Generally, flags of national entities should be used when flags are displayed as icons like this. However, in situations like this where the nation whose flag should be displayed is disputed, they should not be used. See this section of the MOS for detail: Flags should not be used in any list, table or infobox where they could result in ambiguity, controversy or a lack of clarity. Some of the discussion which has taken place at User talk:WinterSummer11 has focused on other articles; see this page explaining why that isn't relevant. A flag should not, in my opinion, be used to represent Crimea. For consistency, it makes sense that other subnational entities (PR, USVI, etc.) do not have flags either. AviationFreak💬 02:40, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

so it means that other pages can use these flags but this page can not ? Wow it's so "fair". They could not even answer my question so it's mean this problem is not fixed. That person named Bri even deleted all the debuts on this page. I do not agree with this. OK Bri you can do whatever you want i quit using wikipedia and editing on this page. Nice try ! Keep ruining this page. WinterSummer11 (talk) 05:37, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Editing

Hello, Should i edit Pages, Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by PickMe10 (talk • contribs) 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@PickMe10: I left a welcome message on your talkpage, which has a large blue "Learn more" button that should be helpful. ☆ Bri (talk) 17:31, 7 August 2024 (UTC)