Talk:Mitrokhin Archive/Archive 2

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Archive 1

Archive 2

I removed Salvador Allende from the page

Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I apologize if this decision bothers anybody but the claims made by Andrew in the book are completely inaccurate according to historical records. The inclusion of the allegations against Salvador Allende are a violation of Wikipedia guidelines for the following reasons:

It is an exceptional claim and Exceptional claims require exceptional sources:

"challenged claims that are supported purely by primary or self-published sources or those with an apparent conflict of interest." The only source of the claim are the Mitrokhin "KGB files". The neutrality of the source is compromised because there is a conflict of interest since they come from the British Intelligence that is known for persecuting members of the Labour Party or other left wing individuals.
"claims that are contradicted by the prevailing view within the relevant community, or that would significantly alter mainstream assumptions, especially in science, medicine, history, politics, and biographies of living people. This is especially true when proponents say there is a conspiracy to silence them." This also applies in this case. There are no serious scholarly history books that support the claims. In addition, when this claim came into light it gave a reason for supporters of the dictatorship of Pinochet to attack anybody that voices complains against the dictator, increasing the divisions that already exist in the country.

Because of the close relationship of historian Christopher Andrew with the British and US intelligence service, he is not a reliable source according to Wikipedia guidelines. In addition, several historians have encountered lots of inaccuracies in his work. Just google reviews for his official history of the MI5 and you will see what I'm talking about.

Wikipedia says that the material of a questionable source should not be used if:

"The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim." In this case it serves the SIS and it is also an exceptional claim.

"It does not involve claims about third parties (such as people, organizations, or other entities)." Maybe in some countries naming the name of a national leader it might be offensive but not a great deal, and it only vilifies that leader's image. That is not the case in Chile. After Salvador Allende was overthrown in a military coup backed up by the United States government and the CIA, Chile was under the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet for 17 years. Thousands were tortured by the military and thousands were killed. Thousands are still missing. After the dictatorship the country has become completely divided. For example, when people go out to the streets to pay homage to their loved ones that died or are still missing, they get attacked and beaten by extremist right wing groups that start fires and vandalize the city. In Chile, for extremists Allende=anybody that opposes the dictatorship, as a result the claim damages third parties.

Thank you for understanding — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mythdestroyer (talk • contribs) 04:16, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't follow. While one may certainly claim that the charge that Allende was close to the Soviet Union is exceptional it is most certainly not exceptional to point out that the book makes this claim against him. The fact that Allende was murdered in a coup and replaced by brutal tyrant is in fact utterly immaterial in regards to that point (i.e. that Mitrokhin accused him of being a having a close relationship with the Soviet Union). In any case I would also insist that you mention specific instances of Mitrokhin's inaccuracies given that his record according to the above comments seems to be mixed.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.238.11.49 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Classifying KGB operations of aiding PLO to fight in occupied territories and PLO's activities as 'terrorism' is invalid

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

By all accounts and purposes, since Palestinian territories were (and still are) under occupation, and therefore classifying the struggle of PLO as 'terrorism' and KGB's aid to the PLO and 'aiding terrorism' is invalid.

Classifying PLO's struggle in that period as 'terrorism' and the aid KGB was giving to PLO as aiding 'terrorism' invalidates and negates all kinds of struggles for freedom - ranging from Polish uprising in Nazi occupied Poland to Partisan movement in Nazi occupied Yugoslavia to even American Revolution. In all these cases the local population was using weapons acquired from various sources against the soldiers and officials of occupying forces. With the classification put in the article, American Revolutionaries were terrorists, and France was basically aiding terrorism.

Some other classification needs to be found.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Unity100 (talk • contribs) 13:04, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Latin American leaders accused of being informants or agents of the KGB

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The passage previously made two statements that Mitrokhin's claims were untrue because the KGB didn't admit to them! Following on from that, the vast majority of the passage was quotes from a lecture by the KGB. Even after I have drastically reduced the size, the majority is still Leonov's version of events, but I don't think it looks unreasonable now.PussBroad (talk) 21:14, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Books

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The "Books" section of the page is not entirely right. One of the ISBNs is wrong, and there are three books listed. Technically, there should be four, or two. "The Mitrokhin Archive: The KGB in Europe and the West" is the same book as "The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB". The former is the UK/Canada title, while the later is the US title. Similarly, "The World Was Going Our Way: The KGB and the Battle for the Third World" is the US title for the book "The Mitrokhin Archive II: The KGB and the World."

I've taken the liberty of gathering the pertinent information, though I have not added it to the main article. 68.147.197.208 02:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Mitrokhin, Vasili, Christopher Andrew (1999) The Mitrokhin Archive: The KGB in Europe and the West. Allen Lane. ISBN 0713993588 (UK Harcover).

Mitrokhin, Vasili, Christopher Andrew (1999). The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB. Basic Books. ISBN 0465003109 (US Hardcover).

Mitrokhin, Vasili, Christopher Andrew (2000) The Mitrokhin Archive: The KGB in Europe and the West. Gardners Books. ISBN 0140284877 (UK Paperback).

Mitrokhin, Vasili, Christopher Andrew (2000). The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB. Basic Books. ISBN 0465003125 (US Paperback).

Mitrokhin, Vasili, Christopher Andrew (2005). The Mitrokin Archive II: The KGB and the World. Allen Lane. ISBN 0713993596 (UK Hardcover Edition).

Mitrokhin, Vasili, Christopher Andrew (2005) The World Was Going Our Way: The KGB and the Battle for the Third World. Basic Books. ISBN 0465003117 (US Hardcover Edition).