Talk:Mohammad Daleel

Separate article unnecessary - merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This man was only notable for carrying out the 2016 Ansbach bombing, and therefore he does not merit a separate article. I propose that this article be merged into 2016 Ansbach bombing#Perpetrator. Size-wise, the contents of this article won't create a problem in the 2016 Ansbach bombing article. —SomeoneNamedDerek (talk) 14:52, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

• Reject merger - The article shows why he is independently notable in the lead. He fought with the Islamic State of Iraq many years ago and fought in a number of rebel groups in the Syrian Civil War. This makes him notable on its own, apart from the 2016 Ansbach bombing. As a jihadi with a long history he has sufficient notability for his own article. Smith1122 (talk) 15:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

• Merge, per WP:ONEEVENT. Even moreso than when events kill other people, a nobody doesn't need an article for himself and his suicide. If he's later found to have been a multi-platinum recording artist and fashion icon, I'll reconsider. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:29, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

And if I'm not mistaken, isn't Bild a sensationalist rag? Ignoring it could help, if size is an issue. Simply trimming wordiness could cut this in half, as well. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:35, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

• @InedibleHulk, you are ignoring the facts again. I told you, he fought in Syria and Iraq years before, so he is notable for that too. That is more than WP:ONEEVENT. That is clear independent notability.Smith1122 (talk) 18:14, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Was he notable for being a fighter in the Islamic State/Syrian Civil War? It doesn't seem like he was a leader or sparked any change during his fighting days. He was just an ordinary and wasn't known or even investigated upon until his suicide bombing. We don't have an article for the hundreds of thousands of people that fought in the Syrian Civil War. —SomeoneNamedDerek (talk) 18:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

That was my thinking, too. Even in a state-run "real" military, the enlisted rarely stand out. Nobody in the mainstream media saw fit to give a shit before this happened, and now they're just scrounging to fill "What we know about the x attacker" articles. Everybody does stuff in their lives; "one event" just means the one that gets press.

I read your words, Smith, but I didn't recognize the signature. If I'd somehow known you were telling me that bit, despite me not showing up yet, I'd have addressed it sooner. Nothing personal. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:22, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

You would be correct if he had only fought in one group for a short time. But he fought in the Islamic State of Iraq, then in the Syrian Civil War in a number of different groups, and then in Jabhat al-Nusra, (which was under the control of the Islamic State of Iraq before it broke off). That is a seven year military career. It's hard to argue that is not independently notable, seems to me it self-evidently is. Be nice if editors would look at the facts rather than spam One event incorrectly.Smith1122 (talk) 09:57, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

The number of banners he waved and how long he waved each matters little. Find me two independent secondary sources covering that aspect from before exploding gave him fifteen minutes of fame, and that will establish notability. Then I'll change my mind. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:56, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

It obviously does matter, because it establishes that he is notable for more than one event. the sources discussing his history are alreading in the article, the telegraph article for exampleSmith1122 (talk) 07:07, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

When I say "notable", I mean per the general notability guideline. The Telegraph mentions all this allegedly notable stuff only "emerged today" and continues to refer to him primarily as "the suicide bomber", not "the soldier" or "Mohammad Daleel". If this one event hadn't happened, not a single one of us would have ever heard about his fighting days, exactly like we never hear of any of the thousands of current fighters in the same war, or current refugees from it. These stories are just context to the one event. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:00, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

• Redirect and Merge on the grounds that there is plenty of space in the Ansbach bombing article to enable this material to be merged there and expanded, as it undoubtedly should be as post-game analysis of Daleel's life emerges. It will since he this was Germany's first suicide bombing. If it overwhelms the article, we can talk about splitting at that point. But much of the information on Dallel's background, contacts, methods of obtaining explosives, motivations and so forth can be more effectively presented in an integrated article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:10, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
• Redirect and merge. A clear case of WP:ONEEVENT. Being a militant in the Syrian Civil War doesn't make one notable on its own. While noticed by the Bavarian law enforcement authorities, he wasn't notable before his death, and is so much, and so specifically identified with the 2016 Ansbach bombing that the incident article may easily cover his biography. --PanchoS (talk) 20:19, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
• Reject merger. Notable for being a bona fide Syrian refugee arrival from Syria who went on to become a terrorist in the land that welcomed him. I mean, there were young women in shorts welcoming Syrian refugee applicants at the Munich train station! Giving away clothes and sweet breads to the arrivals! Singing welcoming songs! And this fellow was one of them! So it is absolutely disingenuous to say that he is significant only for one event: in addition to being significant for his murderous rampage, he is famous for being the first 2014 Syrian refugee who went on to become a terrorist. Does not meet WP:ONEEVENT. XavierItzm (talk) 14:05, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

• I am beginning to come around to User:XavierItzm argument, especially in the light of the news search I just ran [1]. I do think that as per WP:RAPID we should this discussion run another week or so, and see what develops.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:15, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

He was one of many. Nobody considered his particular shorts and bread arrival worth noting till the one event made him anything beyond another Syrian refugee. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:00, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

• Merge - The article doesn't really add anything useful. No one is going to look him up, they are going to look up the attack, if anything. And on there it is very easy to put a perpetrator section with maybe 1/8th of what shows up in the article. We don't need to know what he had for breakfast the day of the attack, just that he was a terrorist who killed only himself. Even the attack itself is rather forgettable for that reason. El cid, el campeador (talk) 13:22, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose This: [2] How a Suicide Bomber Made His Way From Syria to Strike in Ansbach, Germany, intensive reporting on his background, documented lies he told to refugee aid workers in Europe, goodhearted Europeans he duped, and connections with ISIS in today's New York Times, warrants a separate article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:14, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
• Merge - I also strongly suggest to merge this article with the existing one (2016 Ansbach bombing). Getting a separate Wikipedia article might motivate others to do similar things. Having relatives living in Ansbach, I know how important it is to fully understand how this could have happened. It helps those directly or indirectly affected by the attack to heal the wounds. So please don't remove any details, as long as it's confirmed and not only a rumor. --Bdschi (talk) 23:35, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a tool to be used to dissuade "others to do similar things." Wikipedia is not a tool for "healing wounds." XavierItzm (talk) 11:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

• Merge his one GNG notable act is the bombing and should therefore be merged to the bombing article. He has no notability independent from the bombing. AadaamS (talk) 13:34, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Is Daleel being discriminated against only because he was Syrian? Mohammed Atta, who has no notability independent from the September 11 attack, has his own page, but then again, he was Saudi Arab, so I guess that makes it OK for him to have his own page. XavierItzm (talk) 07:31, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

• Enthusiastic Merge - We don't need to give terrorists notoriety in the form of their own wikipedia pages. And if you look at the article, it isn't an article so much as a list of facts. A lot of one-line paragraphs. El cid, el campeador (talk) 08:09, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
• Merge I don't think the person needs an entire article. Kamalthebest (talk) 04:20, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 18:29, 7 April 2018 (UTC)