Talk:Mohseen Moosa

This article can use a WP:EL

@MV Moosa, do you have a personal website, company profile, social media or something like that? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:01, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Gråbergs Gråa Sång,

Yes I do. You can check out my Facebook page, "Mohseen Moosa (Mosheen)" and our wine estate website PaardenKloof Estate.

My Photograph is on the profile of my Facebook page.

Thanks for asking! MV Moosa (talk) 18:12, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I have published my earlier edit that was deleted on the "Request Edit Talk page: Mohseen Moosa" as I promised earlier. Please have a look at it.

I hope I have published in the correct place and in the correct way. Please feel free to correct me if I have done it wrong.

Please also look at my profile and my edits, and let me know if there are any questions or comments that you have and your view.

Thanks you for your assistance Once again

Mohseen MV Moosa (talk) 18:24, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Request edit on 2 August 2024

• What I think should be changed:

Please see my edit below that was deleted by admins and users of Wiki earlier today. This is a big improvement on what is currently on the page, it is factually accurate and it is a balanced and fair representation of me. there is no controversy in my edit.

• Why it should be changed:

see my comment above and my text below.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Huge request for replacing the entire article

{Short description|South African Citizen, Activist, Lawyer, Political participant in Mandela's parliament, Farmer and Developmental Businessman}} {{Infobox officeholder | office = [[Senate of Rep of South Africa|Senator]] | office1 = [[National Council of Provinces|Delegate to the National Council of Provinces]] | termstart1 = May 1994 | termend1 = January 2003 | citizenship = [[South Africa]] | constituency_AM1 = [[Gauteng]] | relations = [[Sabera Moosa, Julie Moosa, Rashid Moosa, Rookhaya Moosa, Ebrahim Moosa, Valli Moosa, Hasina Moosa, Anisa Moosa, Daphne Neethling, Inez Moosa, Raees Moosa, Raoul Moosa]] | birth_place = [[Johannesburg]], [[Transvaal Province|Transvaal]] }} '''Mohseen Valli Moosa''' ( Middle corrected from Wally), is a South African Citizen, Activist, Lawyer, Political participant in Nelson Mandela's Parliament, Farmer, and Developmental Businessman. He has been active in community life since the age of 14. He qualified at a lawyer and practiced public interest, human rights and commercial law until 1994. In May 1994, he joined Nelson Mandela's Government as the youngest Senator and represented the [[African National Congress]] (ANC) in South Africa's first Senate in the democratic era. The Senate was later changed to the [[National Council of Provinces]] (NCOP) as from 1998. He resigned from Parliament in January 2003 to pursue Farming and developmental business interests in the raw minerals beneficiation, farming and the wine industries. He is currently a sheep and cattle farmer, and a winemaker. == Early life and career == Mohseen Moosa grew up in a working class family in Johannesburg with his grandparents, parents and 9 siblings in a small but happy home. His Mother was a seamstress and his father was a packer at Gallo in Johannesburg, and later a shopkeeper. In 1964, his family was forcibly removed from Johannesburg to Lenasia under the Apartheid Group Areas Act. He was always an avid gardener and conservationist. He has always loved working with his hands, reading, outdoor lifestyle and fishing from a young age. He became a prominent community leader, a student Leader, a lawyer, a political representative of South Africa first democracy, a developmental businessman, a farmer and a winemaker. == Educational Background== Mohseen Moosa attended school at Park Primary School in Lenasia, and secondary school at the Lenasia High school. He completed Matric with University Exemption in 1980. He attended the University of Durban Westville in 1981 and the University of the Witwatersrand until 1988. He is a graduate of Wits University. He completed his BA degree in Political Studies and Industrial Sociology and was handed his graduation certificate while in Detention by the Vice Chancellor of Wits University in 1986. In that same year, he began his LLB degree in various fields of Law and completed his LLB in 1988. He studied Performance Management and Public Finance at UCT Graduate School of Business in 1998 and has also completed higher Diploma courses in Micro-Economics and Macro-Economics through the University of London between 2002 and 2004. In 2005, as part of his passion for beneficiation in Africa, Mr. Moosa attained a diploma from the University of Antwerp on “Managing Luxury Businesses” and was lectured by the worlds leading luxury goods and branding specialists from Europe and the US. Mr. Moosa was part of the pioneering group for this course and was nominated to attend by the South African Government. Mr. Moosa has also completed various courses in Farming and Agriculture, Tourism and Winemaking between 2013 and 2021. ==Early Leadership Roles Mr. Moosa has been a activist since the age of 14, having grown up in a political family. He played a key role in the national school protests in 1980 for equal education for all. He was the chairman of the first SRC created at the Lenasia High School, and a member of the Committee of 41 which led the 1980 school boycotts. He was the founding member and first General Secretary of the Lenasia Youth League. He has played leadership roles in various organisations and projects. Some of them were: - Time to Learn Project - Committee of 41 - 1980 - Lenasia Bursary Fund (Chairman) - Congress of South African Students (COSAS) - Lenasia Youth League (Founder member and first General Secretary) - SRC - University of Durban Wesstville - Student Movement - AZASO/SANSCO (National Executive Committee) - Lenasia Civic Association (LCA) - Durban Housing Action Committee (DHAC) - Transvaal Indian Congress (TIC) - United Democratic Front (UDF) - Release Mandela Campaign - National Association of Democratic Lawyers (NADEL) - Black Lawyers Association (BLA) - Legal Resources Center (Volunteer) Mr. Moosa served various periods in detention without trial during the late 1970s and in the 1980s. His longest period of detention was for the full nine months of the National State of Emergency between June 1985 and April 1986. == Legal == Mr. Moosa started his legal Articles of Clerkship at Krish Naidoo Attorneys and completed them at the prestigious Bell Dewar and Hall Attorneys between 1989 and 1990. He was admitted as an attorney of the Supreme Court of South African in 1990. He practiced as an attorney from 1989 to 1997 under the name Mohseen Moosa Attorneys (1991 to 1994) and as an absent Senior Partner while serving as a Senator and later in Moosa and Kathrada Attorneys (1994 to 1997). As an attorney, he represented various Civic, Corporate and Community organisations and activists. He was instructing attorney at the Goldstone Commission of Inquiry. He played a key role in defending civic associations in Thokoza, Katlehong, Pola park, ACTSTOP, and he undertook several high profile trials. On behalf of South African Legal Defence and Aid Fund he represented the residents of communities, unions and individuals in the late 1980s and early 1990s. == Legislative career == In South Africa's [[1994 South African general election|first post-apartheid elections]] in 1994, Moosa was elected to represent the ANC in Nelson Madela's first democratic government and served as its youngest Senator [[Senate of South Africa|Senate]], the upper house of the new [[Parliament of South Africa|South African Parliament]]. He served the [[PWV (province)|PWV]] constituency (a precursor to the [[Gauteng]] constituency).<ref>{{Cite book |url=https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/13429370/south-africa-campaign-and-election-report-april-26- |title=South Africa: Campaign and Election Report April 26–29, 1994 |publisher=[[International Republican Institute]] |year=1994 |access-date=13 April 2023 |via=Yumpu}}</ref> He remained in his seat after the Senate was restructured as the NCOP under the [[Constitution of South Africa|1996 Constitution]].<ref>{{Cite web |date= |title=Moosa, Mohseen Wally |url=http://www.parliament.gov.za/ncop/moosa_mw.html |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/19980628040633/http://www.parliament.gov.za/ncop/moosa_mw.html |archive-date=1998-06-28 |access-date=2023-04-26 |website=Parliament of South Africa}}</ref> Between April 1994 and January 2003, he worked closely with some of South Africa's most illustrious leaders including Dullah Omar, Alec Erwin, Frene Ginwala, Naledi Pandor, Govan Mbeki, Kobie Coetzee, Roelf Meyer and many others. During his first term in the Senator, NCOP and the Joint Houses of Parliament, Moosa chaired various committees of parliament[[List of committees of the Parliament of South Africa|Select Committee on Security and Justice]],<ref>{{Cite web |date=1997-11-07 |title=View from the Gallery |url=https://mg.co.za/article/1997-11-07-view-from-the-gallery/ |access-date=2023-04-26 |website=The Mail & Guardian |language=en-ZA}}</ref> and in 1999 he was elected to chair the ad hoc committee which processed the landmark [[Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, 2000|Equality Bill]].<ref>{{Cite web |date=29 October 1999 |title=Election of Chairperson; Committee Programme |url=https://pmg.org.za/committee-meeting/5394/ |access-date=2023-04-26 |website=Parliamentary Monitoring Group |language=en}}</ref> He served on various committees to draft the Rules of Parliament, Chapter 2 and 8 of the New Constitution and he was the chairperson of committees that passed the following laws and policies, amongst many others: - Various Judicial Laws - Various Laws relating to Companies and the Companies Act - The Truth Commission Legislation - The Equality Law - Inputs to the King Commission on Company, Fiduciary and Governance laws - Various laws regulating the Manufacturing Sector - The Motor Vehicle Industrial Strategy - The National Industrial Strategy - The New Mineral and Petroleum Development Act - National Directorate of Public Prosecutions - South Africa’s post 1994 Industrial Strategy At the time of his resignation in January 2003, Mr. Moosa served on the following Committees of Parliament: - Select Committee on Economic Affairs (Chairperson) - Joint Parliamentary Committee on the Equality Law (Chairperson) - Select Committee on Powers and Privileges (Chairperson) - Review of Rules Committee (Chairperson) - Review of Joint Rules Committee (Joint Chairperson) During his years in Parliament, Mr Moosa has represented South Africa on 34 official international delegations and at various international conferences, the World Trade Organisation (WTO), the United Nations, the UNHCR, the International Parliamentary Association (IPA), SADEC and various one-on-one country missions. == Judicial == Between 1997 and January 2003 Mr. Moosa served as a full voting member of the Judicial Services Commission, inaugurally chaired by the Chief Justice, Judge Ismail Mohammed and then by the President of the Constitutional Court, Judge Arthur Chaskalson. Other members of the Commission who served with him were George Bizos, Barnard Ngoepe, and Johnny De Lange, amongst others. The sole responsibility of the Judicial Services Commission is to interview and appoint Judges to the Constitutional Court, High Courts and the Supreme Courts of Appeal of South Africa and to implement Judicial Reform and Independence. He served on this structure for a total 7 years. == Farming and Developmental Business career == Mr. Moosa joined Deutsche Bank (South Africa) in January 20023 and provided advisories in the healthcare, mining, agriculture, and property sectors. After 2002, Mr. Moosa started pursuing his interests in Beneficiation, Developmental Business, Agriculture, Tourism, Ruminant Farming, Grape Farming and Winemaking. In June 2004, Mr. Moosa was invited to be part of the “Branding South Africa” mission to the USA led by Ms. Wendy Luhabe to encourage interest and investment in South Africa. He was part of the South African group that rang the bells to open the New York Stock Exchange on 14 June 2004. In 2007, Mr. Moosa launched a mineral beneficiation business to beneficiate minerals in South Africa instead of the country exporting only raw materials. The purpose of the project was to create jobs and sustain local value chain businesses downstream in the mining sector. The project was called African Romance. It was funded by the Gauteng Department of Economic Affairs program called The Gauteng Enterprise Propellor, and by the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) The IDC controlled the board of Directors of African Romance and it was chaired by Ms. Katinka Schumann, a senior executive form the IDC. The company struggled to remain profitable during the world recession that took place between 2008 and 2011, when luxury businesses were at their weakest. African Romance was eventually liquidated in 2012. causing financial losses to Mr. Moosa, the IDC and the Gauteng Enterprise Propellor. Starting in November 2003 and continuing to the present, Mr. Moosa has dedicated much of his time to the establishment, growth and operations on the family wine farm, PaardenKloof Estate (Pty) Ltd, on which he serves as a director. He also pursues other Agricultural, Beneficiation and Developmental business interests. Today, the wine estate is well known and the wines are established throughout the world, producing highly respect and sough after wines. He currently a director of several dormant companies and of the following operational private companies: - Mount Babylon (Pty) Ltd - PaardenKloof Estate (Pty) Ltd - Ecology Lifestyle Farm (Pty) Ltd Mr. Moosa is passionate about conservation, sustainable development, soil health and the impact of climate change. PaardenKloof Estate is currently declared as World Wildlife Foundation Biodiversity in Wine Champion Farm and is a key site for Cape Leopards that still roam in the wild, and is monitored by the Cape Leopard Trust. Mr. Moosa also serves on and supports numerous empowerment projects to uplift traditional disadvantaged communities in South Africa. He is also outspoken about rural development, job creation in rural areas, gender empowerment and related matters. Mr. Moosa lives in the small town of Bot River where he does farming and works to improve the living conditions and sub-economy of the town. He has 3 children, qualified in Law, Architecture and Engineering respectively and also one grandchild. === Wine industry === Mr. Moosa currently plays a key role in the South African wine industry and serves on its umbrella structure SA WINE NPC as a director. He also the Chairman of the SA WINE Audit Committee. Mr. Moosa entered the [[South African wine|wine industry]]<ref>{{Cite news |date=25 April 2023 |title=Basson announced CEO of new industry body SA Wine |work=Engineering News |url=https://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/basson-announced-ceo-of-new-industry-body-sa-wine-2023-04-25 |access-date=26 April 2023}}</ref>. == Personal life == Mr. Moosa is passionate about conservation, sustainable development, soil health and the impact of climate change. PaardenKloof Estate is currently declared as World Wildlife Foundation Biodiversity in Wine Champion Farm. Mr. Moosa also serves on and supports numerous empowerment projects to uplift traditional disadvantaged communities in South Africa. He is also outspoken about rural development, job creation in rural areas, gender empowerment and related matters. Mr. Moosa currently plays a key role in the South African wine industry and serves on its umbrella structure SA WINE NPC as a director. He also the Chairman of the SA Wine Audit Committee. Mr. Moosa lives in the small town of Bot River where he does farming and works to improve the living conditions and sub-economy of the town. He has 3 children, qualified in Law, Architecture and Engineering respectively and one grandchild. Mr. Moosa's life partner is Daphne Neethling since 1998. Ms. Neethling studied at the University of Cape Town (UCT) and achieved here Masters in Linguistics (Cum Laude). She is currently also a Farmer and Businesswoman in the Agricultural sector, and is involved in Agri-Tourism as an entrepreneur and business women in the wine industry. She is a recipient of numerous prestigious awards in her sector. == References == {{Reflist}} {{DEFAULTSORT:Moosa, Mohseen}} [[Category:Living people]] [[Category:Year of birth missing (living people)]] [[Category:Members of the Senate of South Africa]] [[Category:Members of the National Council of Provinces]] [[Category:20th-century South African politicians]] [[Category:21st-century South African politicians]] [[Category:African National Congress politicians]] [[Category:Politicians from Johannesburg]] [[Category:South African politicians of Indian descent]] [[Category:21st-century South African businesspeople]]

MV Moosa (talk) 18:28, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

MV Moosa, a whole-article replacement is highly unlikely to happen. Please make a request for fixing specific issues, such as:

• Please remove the sentence X because ...
• Please replace sentence X by Y because ...
• Please add "Example Text" at the end of the lead section, reference https://example.com

~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:43, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Also note that anything being suggested for addition to the article will need be robustly referenced with sources complying with WP:RS.

I agree with ToBeFree that the edit request above has no realistic chance of success in it current form.

See also WP:AUTO. Axad12 (talk) 03:11, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the comments and inputs!

I understand, but the question still remains, why were these sources not checked when the original article was uploaded. For example, I am not born in Lenasia, I am not married to Neethling, etc. some of the information about funding and child support are completely wrong and are merely sound-bites by Opposition Party politician's ... What were the verified sources for this information in the article when it was uploaded. are the sighted sources respected and independent sources?

Why was this information not checked questioned at that time it was uploaded by users in April 2023, when it was uploaded, just like they did with my corrections and amendments yesterday?

So in that sense, WIKI is not very professional and it is sloppy. In addition, it is now difficult to fix it because my amendments and corrections are been rejected. It appears that users are happy to live with the inaccuracies in these articles which were uploaded in a shoddy, unprofessional and one sided biased manner.

Where are the 40 years of exciting things I have done and achieved, such as the human rights work, judicial work, my great educational qualifications, NGO's that I worked in, Communities I worked in, and work I did in Nelson Mandela's team? Why were those things not uploaded in April 2023? Doesn't this show that WIKI is indeed unprofessional, shoddy and open to abuse.

Even though WIKI warns users not to rely heavily of malicious inputs and mass media, poorly sourced and libelous material etc. which WIKI says must be removed "immediately", there are users since yesterday who have prevented this from happening.

So Lets take a constructive and positive approach. I don't require the article or any information about me to be on WIKI if users think its not necessary. Just delete the inaccurate and libelous stuff.

Is it not sensible that we begin by deleting the incorrect information at first. Or even delete the entire Mohseen Moosa article? As I said, I don't mind not being featured on WIKI at all. We can just delete all of it, if correcting the inaccuracies and doing a proper job is such a big problem. I have no Ego that require my achievements to be out there.

Can we do that at least?

Then if we really want the world to know, we can begin by sourcing and building up a more accurate and professionally drafted article of my bio that supports the information I have provided in the article that I requested to be uploaded. I do have a lot of source material and it will take time.

My assigned WIKI mentor has also offered to read my real bio posted here in talk above and assist to fix this.

Thanks again for engaging with me on this, and being open to this discussion. Hopefully we can will improve how WIKI actually works.

Kind Regards

Mohseen 102.213.64.30 (talk) 07:26, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello Mohseen,

Your amendments above were rejected because they were unsourced. I'm sure you will appreciate that one thing that Wikipedia cannot do is to allow individuals to write their own entirely unsourced autobiographies.

User ToBeFree has already suggested above that if you want to make specific suggestions re: elements to be changed then you can do so. Assuming that they are reliably sourced according to WP:RS then I see no reason why such changes would not be approved.

Removing properly sourced material from the article will likely be difficult, but removing unsourced material would be relatively straightforward, especially if sources can be pointed to which disprove any claims that you believe to be untrue.

I am not sure which South African media are defined as RS or non-RS in accordance with Wikipedia policy. If you believe that negative coverage of yourself derives from non-RS sources then that is an issue that can be investigated.

If you have any constructive suggestions to make re: improving the article then I would suggest that you make them, along with supporting sources. Realistically this will need to be done by discussing small elements rather than making one big wholesale change. I would suggest that you start off by addressing the elements that you wish to be removed, commencing with the most important ones.

If you believe that the article contains statements which are libellous then the email address you can write to can be found here: WP:LIBEL.

Hopefully the above notes are of assistance. Axad12 (talk) 08:27, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I've done a bit of digging on the issue of which South African media sources are considered to be reliable or non-reliable. I found the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_South_African_Sources.

If when suggesting amendments you can provide sources from media in the top section of the list (i.e. from GroundUp to Politicsweb) then it will make matters a lot easier when users look to approve suggested amendments.

Once again, hope this helps... Axad12 (talk) 09:03, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank You @Axad12! I really appreciate your dedication to truth and accuracy!

Your research verifies that references 15 and 16 (Sowetan) are not even on the trusted news sources radar screen. Thank you for backing me up on this point. These are good reasons to remove those references and comments.

Your research is also accurate on Engineering News. It is a technical engineering and science magazine, but there is the general view that on political/general news and commentary they do not always rely on well respected sources. Lets use Engineering news only for the technical information reports, and not for the political and news commentary. That will be good reasons to also remove reference 14.

At this stage I am comfortable with the rest of the article. Give some time. I will gather all the addition reverences to support my other edits in the large article I posted.

Thank you for your assistance and fairness in this discussion. It is appreciated.

Kind Regards

Mohseen MV Moosa (talk) 10:08, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Reference [14] is to the Mail & Guardian, which is on the reliable source list.

It is reference [17] that derives from Engineering News, but since that reference is only there to confirm that you entered the wine industry (which the source does confirm) its inclusion seems non controversial to me. Axad12 (talk) 10:20, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance and guidance @Axad12. I suppose we can start by correcting/removing the following:

1. I was not born in Lenasia, I was born in Johannesburg.

2. I am not "Married" to Neethling. She is my life partner - how do I produce a source document ... there is no such thing as a "non Marriage certificate".

3. What is the connection of references 3,4, and 9 to me in my personal capacity. They are not connected to me in any way at all.

4. References 15 and 16 are from a tabloid newspaper that has a history of unverified reporting and is not respected at all in South Africa. It is a regional newspaper. It thrives on sensationalist reporting to sell newspapers. It reports on sex, violence, gangs, drugs and is well known for its unverified commentary. Its reporting is poorly researched by unskilled journalists and it is known for biased/lazy reporting. This is the generally held view about this tabloid.

With regard to the following:

1. The many years of community involvement,

2. My legal qualifications and involvement in key trials;

3. My Judicial service work;

4. The human rights record, and work in the human rights field,

5. All the committees I chaired in the Mandela administration,

6. The educational background;

7. My farming and wine industry involvement, verification, so forth,

... I will start putting together the references and post them here on the Talk page. Then members of this talk can independently verify and upload. It will take some time as much of the information is scattered all over, some are hard copies of documents.

Can someone guide me on how I upload my educational certificates, hard copy records and things like that onto this talk and other links that I have? Judging from my edits on the page yesterday, by now you know that I have no experience with WIKI at all. I have a lot to learn :)

Kind Regards

Mohseen MV Moosa (talk) 09:34, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I may be quite busy this weekend, but here are some thoughts (following your numbering of 1-4 above):

1: Changed to Johannesburg, as requested, in both the infobox and main text.

2: Apologies if I am missing something but I don't see Neethling currently mentioned in the article.

3: Reference [3] states that you had resigned in early 2003, it thus demonstrates that you had served under Mbeki. Reference [4] is very long and I'm afraid I have not read it and (to be honest) I don't intend to do so. However, since it dates to 1994 I wonder if it confirms that you served under Mandela? Reference [9] confirms that you held a particular post at the time of the article, but it doesn't seem to be the one mentioned in the sentence in our article that precedes that reference.

4: The sources for references [15] and [16] above seem to be (a) an outlet not mentioned in the WP link in my previous post re: SA media sources, and (b) an outlet described in the WP link as 'usable but be cautious'. I take no view on whether they are trustworthy or not. It may be useful for someone to raise the issue at the noticeboard of WikiProject South Africa [1] to get some additional input on that particular topic.

On the broader issue of sourcing for the other issues, and potentially scanning uploading material, I would strongly suggest discussing this with your mentor. My understanding is that there may be potential copyright violation issues which may complicate that process. Best I think to discuss with your mentor re: what you intend to add, what sources can easily be provided and how best to do so.

Have a good weekend. Axad12 (talk) 10:11, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Mohseen, because you have said above that you are comfortable with the article as it currently stands I am going to close this request as  Done.

I'd suggest setting up any further requests as a new COI edit request once you've discussed options with your mentor. Axad12 (talk) 10:25, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Axad 12. Thank you!

Can I request that we remove 15 and 16 at this stage, since that is supported by your research and the Sowetan tabloid does not feature in t. you could go onto their pages, and you will immediately get a sense of the type of newspaper they are. he respected list

Further than that, reference 14 was not the reason for the weakness of the business. The business suffered during the severe 2008 - 2012 global recession and financial crises. It was a business in the luxury sector, and as you would know, luxury businesses are the first to suffer in recessionary and tough times. So in that sense, it is just uncontroversial inaccurate news.

Once again, thank you so much for your help. Have a great weekend!

Kind Regards

Mohseen MV Moosa (talk) 10:35, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

As per my previous comment I am reluctant to remove the material sourced to references [15] and [16]. I think the only realistic way of resolving that issue will be for someone to query the sources at either WP:ZA (WikiProject South Africa) or WP:RS (WikiProject Reliable Sources), or perhaps better quality sources may end up being located.

As I say, I take no view on whether the material in those sources is correct, but for the time being there are avenues that can be pursued to resolve the RS issue one way or the other. Axad12 (talk) 10:53, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I've requested input on sources 15 & 16 at the Reliable Sources noticeboard here [2]. Hopefully we can get some clarity on how best to proceed by getting more eyes on this. Axad12 (talk) 11:29, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Axad12. Hopefully we can get some clarity. Keep me posted.

All the best

Mohseen MV Moosa (talk) 11:31, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12@MV Moosa Hello. On "upload my educational certificates, hard copy records and things like" in short no. We don't use what we consider WP:BLPPRIMARY sources like that, for various reason. One reason is that even if you did upload an educational certificate, WP-editors would have no easy way to know if it's authentic or not. The goal here is to write about you based on the independent WP:RS that has written about you.

That said, if there are good WP:OFFLINE sources/articles about you that you have on paper, you can, if you like, share them with editors here via Google Drive or something similar. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:56, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

References