Talk:Montagnard country of South Indochina

Removed paragraph (July 2023)

In response to "Removed entire paragraph that written entirely by narrative-building neocolonialist perspective. @Donald Trung hey mister Trump supporter can you list one Sinospheric Vietamaese culture practiced the montagnards tribes?" by @103.186.155.74: These are odd accusations, the removed paragraph reads:

"After having consolidated their colonial power in the Union of Indochina, the French subsequently focused their more on controlling the highland population as a method of controlling anti-French insurrections rising up among the lowland Kinh people. French administrators in the highland regions, such as Léopold Sabatier, contributed to the persistence of a separate non-Vietnamese identity for the Montagnards by opposing the immigration of Kinh people into these regions. French administrator Sabatier sought to emphasise a separate ethnic identity for the Montagnards differentiating them from the Annamese, and even created a customary law code for the Degar people."

This paragraph simply notes French colonial policies, it doesn't claim that any tribe in the region was Sinitic, rather that the French limited ethnic Kinh migration into the region to prefer cultural Vietnamisation. How is this "Neocolonialist"? This perfectly fits with the neutral point of view as it simply explains the intent and the policies of the French. --Donald Trung (talk) 20:10, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

There are many mentions of distinctive Montagnard tribes mentioned by the Vietnamese and other accounts previous centuries. Most importantly the Tây Sơn dynasty period, which the sources mention many tribes of the Tây Sơn dynasty such as the bah Nar people. You denied this, wrote "French administrator Sabatier sought to emphasise a separate ethnic identity for the Montagnards differentiating them from the Annamese, and even created a customary law code for the Degar people." Sabatier didn't do anything than recording Montagnard epics and songs. What information you got from is entirely invented later by French neocolonialists to discredit the indigenous peoples they ruled and justify their colonialism. Just another form of racism.103.186.155.74 (talk) 20:24, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

103.186.155.74, It is never stated that he "invented" their traditions, he simplified codified them into customary law to differentiate the existing Degar customary culture from the Annamese legal system. You read that into the text, but it is not stated by the text itself. -- — Donald Trung (talk) 20:37, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

"Donald Trung" doesn't understand the concept of unceded homelands

Hello @Donald Trung We mean you as the main writer of this entire wikipedia have no idea whenever you edit and spoke this " In some instances here the term "indigenous people" makes sense but in others it doesn't, for example when referring to the population relative to the whole of Vietnam, the King are indigenous to other places but not these domains, so replace it where it makes sense, not universally." The concept of indigenous as you misused, doesn't relate to an imperialist power and its dominated "colony" subjects. Indigenous refers to original inhabitants of the area being displaced or removed entirely by settler-colonizer forces. The British didn't "colonize" North America, white settlers did and the british just used them as a proxy mean. The French didn't try to colonize Vietnam with its people, the Vietnamese were already capitalists and colonizers as were the French, so implying indigenity into this dimension meaning you-as a settler colonial power-dismiss the entire separate history of another distinct people, using your colonizers' logic and morality-which is white racist and patriarch-to solder the oppressions and erasure of indigenous peoples around the world that you white colonizers tempted that the lands were yours and you have to remove the impurity from traditional unceded ancestral homelands of marginalized people. The Montagnards are deprecated and marginalized, but that doesn't mean they would be vanished soon nor should be Vietnam shown through the media as a straight homogenous sinless country as it usually does. We don't approve what you anti-woke fascism having done too much lies and damages to the marginalized indigenous of Vietnam. 103.186.155.74 (talk) 20:16, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

103.186.155.74, and here lies the issue, I can tell that I'm conversing with an ideology. Also I am not sure how you would consider neutrally reporting on the colonial policies of the French Third Republic as "fascist", which the article describes as "characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy." None of which apply here, the term "indigenous" could be used in the way that you're referring to but that is very much a narrow way of using it, the French used the term "indigenous" to refer to all non-European inhabitants of French Indochina, not just those using your narrow definition which would still include the Kinh as they were being colonised at the time, the Kinh only started colonising this particular region following the defeat of the French. The usage of the term "indigenous" to differentiate Kinh from non-Kinh is inherently political. I have never tried to paint Vietnam as a sinless country by the way, in fact I think that it's a shame that we don't have information about the genocidal march southwards by imperial Vietnam or the fact that "Vijaya massacre" is a redlink as this was the bloodiest massacre in Vietnamese history, seeing a total of 40.000 ethnic Cham civilians in Vijayapura being slaughtered by the victorious Đại Việt. But how does this relate to the coverage or French colonialist policies during the period of French domination? I find it interesting that you can write such a long diatribe while essentially saying nothing of essence. You accuse me of being a fascist for simply covering the colonial policies of the French, you seek to remove this paragraph because apparently it conflicts with your worldview. -- — Donald Trung (talk) 20:35, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

The French colonialists used divided and rule tactic to enhance their brutal exploitation of every groups. But you claim that "Montagnards were adored by French colonialists to oppress majority Kinh people", which we–please respect our correct gender pronoun–as a Vietnamese citizen who is living on traditional unceded homelands of the Rhade Mnong and Stieng peoples, can't stand and read all of that false racial-divisive bended narrative which distorts Vietnam's history in favor of Kinh chauvinism and ethnic hatreds.103.186.155.74 (talk) 20:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

103.186.155.74, again, you are reading something into the text which isn't actually in the text. Where was it claimed that the French adored the Montagnards? Also, how is disallowing Kinh migration into a region "oppression of Kinh people"? I am by no means a Kinh chauvinist, but you seem to be reading neutrally worded coverage of the French colonial policies as "racism" by me as if I was somehow responsible for what the French were doing by covering it. All you simply are doing is call me a racist for covering French racism, this makes no sense. -- — Donald Trung (talk) 20:51, 6 July 2023 (UTC)