Talk:Montezuma Castle (hotel)

Can Hirohito have been a guest of the hotel?

Hirohito was born 1901. The hotel-operation ended 1903. Kwschaefer (talk) 14:42, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Hirohito's own article states that he visited the continental Unites States only once, in 1975. As far as I can tell he did not visit New Mexico during that trip. So, I think this claim is implausible. Camerafiend (talk) 15:20, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

-- The claim is suspect, but the Hirohito article is erroneous as well. He visited the U.S. in 1971 and was greeted by President Nixon. https://www.nytimes.com/1971/08/21/archives/president-to-meet-hirohito-in-alaska-nixon-will-meet-japanese-ruler.html Uucp (talk) 13:22, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm looking for other references to a visit from Hirohito (or other Japanese royals, in case a reference to 'the Japanese emperor' was attached to the wrong emperor, for example). I'm ignoring recent sources that may have taken their information from Wikipedia itself.

• "Montezuma Memories: An Anthology," Tom Wiley, 1972, p.12 says "The hotel register was filled with famous names, among them Rutherford B. Hayes and Ulysses S. Grant, both former presidents of the United States; Japan's Emperor Hirohito, Civil War General William T. Sherman, Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, as well as British Royalty and high officials from as far away as India."
• "Will the fabled castle in the desert rise again," Jason Silverman, New Mexico Magazine, February 1998 p.38, says "Listed in the hotel's ledger were names including Ulysses S. Grant, Emperor Hirohito of Japan, Theodore Roosevelt, Rutherford B. Hayes and Jesse James, all who visited during the castle's heyday in the late 1800s."

A 2002 article by Jon Bowman, associate publisher of New Mexico Magazine, titled "Parade of Celebrities Make Montezuma Pilgrimage," says the following:

• "As far as can be verified using extant hotel registers in the possession of New Mexico State Records Center and Archives, the first "celebrity" of note to stay at the Adobe Hotel [this was a predecessor to the Montezuma Hotel] was Jesse James… He staked out the most long-lasting link to the Montezuma region by signing his John Hancock to the guest register of the Adobe Hotel for a short stay from July 26-29, 1879". The article later says "It was no accident that such robust adventurers as Teddy Roosevelt (then governor of New York) and Ulysses S Grant (at the time an Army general) joined the pilgrimage to the Montezuma."

This article does make a reference to Japan, though not one that supports the Hirohito claim. "Not only did divas hold forth at the opera house, but the Optic [the local newspaper] recorded a special appearance in 1886 by a troupe of Japanese acrobats and singers 'direct from the Court Theater of his Majesty, the Mikado of Japan.'" I bet this got garbled into the current Hirohito reference.

Other famous people cited in this piece, "Anybody who was anyone checked into the lobby — not only to relax and unwind, but also to be seen and to establish one's high standing in the social pecking order. President Rutherford B. Hayes put in an appearance. So did famed Civil War Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman and the explorer John Fremont. Royal visitors included the Marquis of Lorne and Princess Louise, Queen Victoria's daughter. In an interesting footnote, the Duke of Rutland from Great Britain stopped off at Montezuma with his wife while touring the United States. Wishing to experience a true Western-style adventure, they took meals at the hotel, but camped outside on the grounds. One small complication eventually forced them indoors — the birth in 1882 of their eldest daughter, sibling to Lady Diana Manners, the famous actress."

The article confirms that Jim Flynn trained at the then-abandoned hotel in 1912.

Several other these articles cite the closing date on the hotel as 1904. I found the 1890 Harper's Weekly article cited on other points in the original, and it is correctly quoted, though it names no famous visitors. I'm still trying to try to find the 1967 article that this entry originally cited on the Hirohito claim, but I feel comfortable with the position that Hirohito never visited, while Teddy Roosevelt, Ulysses S Grant, Rutherford B. Hayes, William Tecumseh Sherman, and John Fremont all did. So did Jesse James, but only to a predecessor hotel on the same site and Jim Flynn, but only after it closed. Uucp (talk) 14:10, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

--

I got a copy of the 1967 New Mexico Magazine article! Here is the relevant sentence "The old register, dating back before the turn of the century, holds many famous names of visitors, from Bombay to London - Gen. Grant, President Hayes, Queen Victoria's sister, Princess Louise, Emperor Hirohito. President Theodore Roosevelt once attended a Rough Riders' Reunion within its walls." Note that Princess Louise is described as Queen Victoria's sister. She wasn't; she was Queen Victoria's fourth(?) daughter. Otherwise, the list appears credible with the exception of Hirohito.

Funny that by Wikipedia rules, this "fact," cited by so many sources, probably should be treated as true. However, given even an ounce of common sense, the infant Hirohito did not secretly visit New Mexico. Uucp (talk) 21:03, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Were the two hotels that burned both lit by electric lights?

The current article says, "The current castle is actually the third on the site, the first two (dating to 1881 and 1885) were the first buildings in New Mexico to have electric lighting, and they both burned down." In his book about Fred Harvey, "Appetite for America," author Stephen Fried mentions that the first fire was caused by an accident that occurred while workers were servicing a network of lanterns fueled by naphtha fumes. He then mentions that the replacement hotel had electric lighting, apparently in order to protect it from fire. If Fried's book is any indication, only the second and third hotels had electric lighting. 63.157.251.26 (talk) 03:31, 14 March 2023 (UTC)