Talk:Moon (1997 video game)

Platform section

Minor issue, but I put the DVD TV game part first just to be alphabetical, which I think is how it's supposed to be. Not that I really mind, as I really prefer it the other way around, but just trying to be consistent.--SeizureDog 07:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Consistent? The rest of the template is in order of appearance (who published the game; when which game was released), so I think it would be more consistent to put PC before DVD TV game.--十八 07:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The nature of this game

Is this game a GxG (yuri/shoujo-ai/lesbian/etc.) or GxB title? The article never mentions the genders of the characters with whom you can get an ending; it merely states that the main character is female, and lists a few characters without explaining whether or not it is possible to have a relationship with them. If it's not too much trouble, a brief mention of this would be quite helpful. Thanks in advance.--Tally Solleni 06:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Much of the nature of this game is shrouded in mystery, but from what I've gathered from the Japanese wiki page and the couple official sites of this game, it doesn't seem that it goes down the yuri path very often, if ever. On a related note, there was one scene in Kanon showing a nude Sayuri and Mai having sex, but I'm not sure if that was real or a dream or something like that. I have the CG to confirm. And then there was another H scene between Haruko and Misuzu from Air, so it's not too far-fetched to say that the makers of this game put in at least a bit of yuri in Moon..--十八 07:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I take that back, there is some yuri in Moon. (pic NSFW), but there's also GxB too (pic NSFW).--十八 07:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

On a related note, this game isn't really a multi-route game like other visual novels. In a lot of ways, it's a bit more of an adventure game, even if the 'adventure' part is mostly limited to wandering around FARGO and e.g. searching every tile of the underground passage for that !@#$% ventilation duct. There is a relatively large amount of H (for a proto-Key, anyway), with a decent number of rape scenes and the like (such as the main 'BAD END' whenever you get caught by FARGO's 巡回員). Otherwise I'd consider the game to be relatively single-route, despite having an above-average number of choices. --Asceai (talk) 23:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Possible resource

Click here. I'm placing this here in the hopes that it may be used one day. It seems to be an indepth description of the story.--十八 01:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Media involvement

I'm going to remove the below section from the article until sources can be produced to substantiate the claims. I had translated it from the Japanese wiki page with the intention of finding sources eventually, but after some searching, I have turned up empty handed and even if the claims are true, they cannot be sourced at this time, so they'll be removed for the time being:

At the time of Moon.'s first release in 1997, the game was described as a "commerical game to challenge taboos" in the media. This is due to the game's negative portrayal of a cult-like organization which captures its victims and then tortures them. In 1995 in Japan, a new religious group called Aum Shinrikyo caused the Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway incident, and since the event was still fresh in the minds of the Japanese, the portrayal of a similar evil organization in Moon. did not go unnoticed.

--十八 04:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments:

1. "In the original game, a bonus role-playing game became available on the title screen after the game was completed at least once. This was later removed from the full-voice DVD edition of the game." (Gameplay) Since this is part of the Gameplay section, I can probably let it go but, if it's possible to find a reliable source to cite it since it's potentially (though not likely) challengeable. If not, just let me know here.
2. "Excluding YET11 and Ishisan, the staff that created the game later became the founding members of the visual novel company Key, so Moon. is often considered roughly equal to one of Key's works. Moon. was the starting point for Key's origins, and was the first time the principal Key team was formed." (Development) definitely requires a citation. "so Moon. is often considered roughly equal to one of Key's works." is potentially a violation of WP:OR without a proper citation. A citation is required to say that something is "often considered" anything; and for it to be "often considered," it needs to be more than just one person saying it.
3. The lead needs to conform to WP:LEAD. Specifically, it must summarize all the major points/headings made in the main article. Currently there is nothing on the "Reception" section.
4. In the lead, the sentence "Unlike most adult games, the protagonist of Moon. is a girl named Ikumi Amasawa who joins an organization called FARGO in the hopes of discovering why and how her mother died, who was a member of the same group." seems a little funny to me. Obviously in other games, the protagonist and plot wouldn't be that, otherwise it would be the same game. The sense makes sense if you remove "Unlike most adult games," but I'm not sure if you were aiming for something else, so I didn't remove it and will let you do what needs to be done.
5. Wikipedia itself cannot be used as a reference. If you want to cite something from another article, you need to use the citation that that article uses for that fact.
6. External link #1 is redundant to Reference #4 and should be removed. Same with External link #2 and Reference #1.

To allow for these changes to be made, I am placing the article on hold for a period of up to seven days, after which it may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work thus far. Cheers, CP 08:19, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Some comments:

1. I got that (and some other stuff) from the Japanese wiki page. I suppose I could try to find something about it somewhere. I could attempt to primary source it using the games themselves as cites, but I'm not sure what you'd think of that.
2. The first part about "the first time the Key team was formed" comes through researching the forming member's historys, which can be viewed on their respective articles. I'm not sure how I could cite this as it's merely an observation. In comparsion, the same staff made One: Kagayaku Kisetsu e, and then (excluding the two cited above) went on to make Kanon. Moon. was Tactics' second game, and the first only had Itaru Hinoue and Shinji Orito from the later Key team that worked on it (it also had a scenario writer, but he never came up again). Before Moon., most of the Key team was working for other video game companies. So I might not be able to cite this from a reliable source, even though it's observably true. As for the second part about "Moon. being equivalent to one of Key's game", this too comes from the Japanese wiki page, and does make sense since most of the team later formed Key (same reason One is considered a part of Key's titles). I guess I could remove it if I had to.
3. I'll incorperate reception in the lead.
4. Yeah, it is a bit confusing. I meant that unlike the vast majority of eroge, the protagonist of Moon. is female, where usually the protagonist is male. I'll reword it to make this clear.
5. I don't know what you mean by this; I haven't used any wikipedia articles as sources in this article. If you were possibly confused by the (now) third reference, it's a primary source to an episode of Kanon. I suppose I could also replace this with a screenshot of the movie poster which is an obvious parody of the Moon. game cover.
6. This is the only thing I don't agree with. It would be difficult to find these very important links in the references section, and we shouldn't have to make it harder for the reader to find external links to official websites that carry more information from the creators themselves. Just because two of the links in EL are used as sources does not mean they also shouldn't be in the EL section.

--十八 09:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I will check this over again tomorrow but, to address #5, I forgot to include the reference number, and now the Wikipedia cite seems to have disappeared, so don't worry about that one. And don't forget to do #3, which appears to be the only one that hasn't been done yet. Full go-over tomorrow though. Cheers, CP 08:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I did incorperate a bit of the reception into the lead; it's at the end and shows as references in other media. And I'm telling you, there was no cite to wikipedia. Check the history to confirm.--十八 09:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

GA Review Part 2

Alright, I'm in agreement with most things. Two final concerns though:

1. The lead should still include something how the game itself was received; it's a critical part of any film or game article.
2. "Moon. was the starting point for Key's origins, and was the first time the principal Key team was formed." (Development) Even though this is fairly obvious, it is an original conclusion unless it has been concluded in some other reliable source. 1+1 doesn't equal 2 on Wikipedia unless someone else has said it. Therefore, this does need a cite.

After that, the article should be good to go. Cheers, CP 01:47, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. The reception was added at the end of the lead, and the afformentined sentence in Dev was removed until I can find a proper source. It's a shame though since not everyone will realize it even though it's glaringly obvious to someone familiar with Key and their works such as I.--十八 02:02, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well I think I've hassled you enough this round, so I will now be passing this as a Good Article. Congratulations, and thank you for your hard work! Cheers, CP 03:06, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Invisible power

I changed "power of invisibility" under Plot and Characters to "invisible power" (it refers to 『不可視の力』). I know the resultant sentence doesn't sound particularly good, so I would appreciate it if someone could fix it up and make it proper English.

The problem is that "power of invisibility" makes it sound as if the power is, well, the power to make you invisible or something. That's misleading, because the power itself is invisible. It refers to a kind of ESP-like power that plays an important role in MOON. It has nothing to do with making the user invisible. 118.208.105.212 (talk) 08:27, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 1 February 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Moon (visual novel). czar 01:44, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

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Moon. → Moon (visual novel) – No WP:RS English language sources; a dot doesn't work in English sentences as WP:RECOGNIZABLE. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:11, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose - the name has the dot and there is no reason to move it to a new place because of such a basic issue. There are no other articles called "Moon." (with the dot) so there's no reason to disambiguate this. Anarchyte (work | talk) 09:18, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support or move to Moon. (visual novel). The little dot is too small a detail to be adequate by itself, and seems to serve a merely decorative purpose in Japanese pop culture. See also MOS:TM (e.g., skate., Se7en, and Alien³) and Gangsta. (no consensus), Kobato. (no RM discussions), Janet (album), Shakira (album), Melody (Japanese singer), Bakuman, Fun (band), Anderson Paak, India Arie. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:44, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose because the suggested solution violates the author's rights by intervening in the novel's name by deleting the period.--Retrohead (talk) 09:33, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't believe that right exists otherwise someone would have recommend deleting the WP:MOSTM by now.--174.91.186.82 (talk) 01:53, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

• Support MOS:TM indistinct disambiguation and playful punctuation -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 06:04, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support per MOS:TM and WP:NATDIS, we almost never include stylization in article titles. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 12:51, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Wikipedia titles with a period have demonstrated to receive hits (Barack Obama., for example). There is no way to determinate if editors arrive here looking for the novel or the satellite. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 23:46, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Makes sense. (Also, I would be a hypocrite to oppose after the request at Talk:The Goods: Live Hard, Sell Hard a year ago.) Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 17:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support per MOS:TM et al.  ONR  (talk)  21:52, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Article name conflict

This page should probably be moved to avoid confusion with Moon: Remix RPG Adventure which was also released in 1997. It's at least equally notable as this one. Moon (1997 video game) should be a disambiguation page. Ideas on a move target for this game? TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:12, 25 May 2022 (UTC)