Talk:Moscow trials/Archive 1

Archive 1

Old talk

What is the accepted English term for the The 1937 trial of high military commanders? I am going to write a stub for it under the title, which is the translation of the Russian, "дело троцкистской антисоветской организации": Case of Trotskyist Anti-Soviet Military Organization, also known as "дело военных", Case of Military. Please suggest a more proper title. Mikkalai 05:20, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

When the transcript was first published in English, it was called 'The Case of the Anti-Soviet Center.67.66.159.249 04:52, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

The Dewey Commission

Left in details as it is important to record that it was factually known as early as 1937 that at least some of Stalin's charges were wholly fabricated, yet were supported completely by the Comintern and those adhering to pro-Stalinist views. Also, the Molotov 'defense' for what it was worth, collapsed completely in 1956 with Khrushchev's Secret Speech - either delete it completely or demonstrate its fallacy, but it should not be left unrebutted. Finally, I don't understand how anyone could completely delete revelations on how the confessions were obtained (by torture and threats against family members) TIM 29 SEP 2006

1. The editor has introduced interesting references and details, but duplicates detailed information that is found on the more specific pages (for the Dewey Commission, the individual trials, etc.) that only serve to confuse the overall narrative of this page. The editor makes a series of small edits, each of which may be valuable, but often repeat themselves, and do not respect the chronological flow of Trials. 2. The contemporary defenses are adequately "rebutted" elsewhere in the article. The purpose of this section should be a contextual explanation of the state of mind of the Trials defenders who did not know that the trials were frame-ups. This is not the place for a POV 'rebuttal'. Reitearating the fallacy here (when it is adequately given elsewhere in the same page) is confusing as to the state of mind of the defenders. 3. The reference to torture of the defendants and their family members was retained in line 23, the introductory section of the article. The duplication of the discussion in the "Contemporary Opinions in Defense..." was deleted. (As a side note, will the editor "TIM" please begin using the "quadruple ~" notation to sign his edits, as per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. It makes the attribution clearer.) DJ Silverfish 17:32, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it is amazing that no contemporary criticizm (except for the Dewey commission) is included. Particularily since Davies included despite the fact that he was generally considered a man of poor judgement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.146.131 (talk) 12:21, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

In all fairness to Davies, he wasn't the only one with a positive view of Stalin or that those accused at the trials might be guilty. He's representative, not an outlier. —PētersV (talk) 03:33, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not posting to slam Davies, just pointing out that the show trials were generally criticized in the West at the time. The press in particular had a field day in poking holes in the accusations, some of which were obviously groundless. A fact which this article fails to convey. I'm also missing the strategical implications of the show trials, which undermined the Soviet Union's credibility in the eyes of Western politicians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.146.131 (talk) 12:16, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

First Show Trial

I believe the first show trial was actually the Shakhty Trial of 1928. Any comment? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Susanelizabeth (talk • contribs) 02:37, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

There seems to have been a trial of Left Socialist Revolutionaries as early

as 1919, but we are not told much about this.

This article is about a specific series of trials. Shakhty Trial and others are discussed elsewhere. - Altenmann >t 19:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Copyright picture

Removed from hidden comment: <!-- Image with unknown copyright status removed: [[Image:Iskorenim.jpg|thumb|right|100px|A Soviet poster calling for eradication of “[[spy|spies]] and [[sabotage|diversant]]s, [[Trotskyist]]-Bukharinist agents of [[fascism]].?]] -->66.234.33.8 (talk) 12:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Article subject

Re:"The Moscow Trials were a series of three ..." Who defined the term in this way (in particular, restricting to three cases) ?

I don't see citations which give the definition of the term. Please provide. Otherwise it looks like a WP:SYNTH (and somewhat inconsistent, too (the article body includes Tukhachevsky case)). - üser:Altenmann >t 17:18, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Trotsky's opinion

Trotsky said that Stalin's phoney trials were obviously "anti-Semitic", with three Jews said to be conspiring with Trotsky to kill Stalin, a Georgian. Trotsky referred to earlier trials of Jews such as Dreyfuss, held by right-wing groups.

Relevance or reference? Please sign your posts with four tildes. Thank you. Flanker235 (talk) 12:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Alexander Orlov connection

About 9 years ago, I read a book by the FBI handler of Alexander Orlov. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Orlov_(Soviet_defector) Orlov was an NKVD major, who was extensively involved with the Spain war of 1937, as well as the Show trials, and himself fled an order to return to Moscow in 1938, fearing that he would be executed. Orlov eventually settled in American, and caused quite a stir around 1953, when an article in Life magazine announced that he had been present in America since about 1938. One story I recall, was a claim by Orlov that evidence of Stalin's actions as an informant for the Czar, prior to the 1917 Revolution, had come to light in the mid 1930's. Stalin, fearful that evidence of his prior activities would come to light, reacted by killing just about everyone. 2601:1C2:4E02:3020:152:C7CA:53B7:BAA8 (talk) 20:20, 5 July 2018 (UTC)