Talk:Mother Motherland

Different

Why are these entirely different statues, in different countries, are included in one article? :24.185.133.119

because, Mother Motherland (Russian: Родина-мать, Rodina-mat’) is the name of several huge statues in various cities of the former Soviet Union. :69.228.206.35

Renaming

Any oppinions about renaming it "The motherland"? "Mother motherland" sounds (to me at least) like a joke, and I don't think it's appropriate to joke: it is the name of a statue to fallen solders, not to a buffon. Anyway, just a suggestion. Feel free to rv my edit. (i will check here in a day or two):Dc76 19:18, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

In response to "wikipedia is not a dictionary". So, Mother Motherland is not a bad taste joke? :Dc76 18:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

No it is not. Please edit in areas where you have sufficient knowledge. It is your suggestion that looks like bad taste joke and trolling. Your user page says "This user freely commands Russian language", so I conclude that you are either a liar ora Russophobic troll. `'Mїkka 19:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

If you gave it a thought and think Mother-Mother is ok, I won't contradict you. My edit was out of the fact that I did not see Mother-Mother in any sourse, but I did see a very nice and intelligent "The motherland" under the picture and with google. Mother Homeland seemed to me normal as well. To add Mother Fatherland perhaps was a mistake: I simply translated Russian (Родина-мать) to Romanian (Patria-mamă) to English, and in Romanian "Patria" has the same root as "Fatherland". But I do think that explaing what the word "rod" means would have been a good thing, b/c in most other European languages (En, Fr, De, Ro, It) the word Родина comes from father or mather. For example in Romanian rod=neam, but no derivatives of it resulted in Rodina.

About my knowledge of Russian language. I believe it is fairly good: I can read and write with only few mistakes. I can also understand. Unfortunately my spoken Russian degraded over the last 15 years, b/c I did not have opportunity to speak with anyone in Russian regularly. I meet many Russians, but unfortunately I have to talk in group with other people, and therefore we have to do it in English. And 2 sentences per day (on some days only) in Russian is not enough to keep up the habbit. But unlike others, I am not "ashamed" of knowing Russian, and I am not Russophobic. I know many Russians personally because of professional reasons, but all of them are extremely civilized and intelligent. It has always been a big pleasure talking with them. It is true, they are part of the elite of the Russian society (in terms of culture), but what a pleasure to conversate with them.

I am going to leave the words "liar" and "troll" on your conscience.:Dc76 19:58, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Please ask your extremely civilized and intelligent friends how they will evaluate your insistence on the qualification "bad taste joke" when you were multiple times hinted that it is not. I am sure they will come with very polite synonym, probably of Greek or Latin origin. `'Mїkka 21:33, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't know to what word you refer, but forget it. Look, after I was once hinted (by Ghirla's edit to the article) that it is not a joke, I only asked again on the talk page. (after which your first reply of today came). Look, I am sorry, if my edit to this article was not good. But I think you will realize that it was not in any way with bad intent, and it did not result in anything bad. You say that the original form "mother-mother" is better than what I suggest. Ok, I accept that. But I would like to know, just for my curriosity, why "The Motherland" is not better than "Mother Motherland"? Did you see "Mother Motherland" written in books and on postcards, and you never saw "The Motherland"? Just tell me it is so, and I won't bother.:Dc76 22:16, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

It is not "mother-mother". The translation is "Mother Motherland". they are not called simply "Rodina" in Russian. They are called " Rodina-mat' ". "Mother Motherland" is not the same as "Motherland". If it sounds funny to you, good for your sense of humor. I am not making fun of words Popeşti or Huedin in Russian wikipedia. `'Mїkka 02:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, if you say so, I won't contest it any longer. Just note, that this has 130,000 search resluts, as opposed to 796 for your option. But have it your way, you know better. (P.S. I was not making fun, I thought someone did already. I am sorry about my misunderstanding.):Dc76 14:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The thing is that Rodina does not translate as Motherland. Only Rodina Mat' is translated as the Motherland, whereas Rodina simply means homeland. Does the god Rod appear like a feminine figure to you? Why would Rodina mean Motherland? --Humanophage (talk) 15:21, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

And how many of these 130,000 results talk about statues in question? unlike "mother motherland" which is quite unique combination, everybody has "the motherland". `'Mїkka 14:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Now that we've done with this silly bickering, let me explain what had happened with this page. Somewhere in the beginning this page was started as a disambiguation page for the expression "The Motherland". Somewhat later I split it into the page Motherland (disambiguation) and Mother Motherland Please notice that the exact names for the three of the four statues are not "Rodina Mat' ". In the overall process of editing the word {{disambig}} disappeared from the page, I lost attention to the topic, and now it is a mess. Now it must be turned back into the disambig page and make separate articles. `'Mїkka 15:10, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Now, this is a totally differnet talk: I can actually understand it. If Ghirlandajo would have told me that from the very begining, I would have changed myself my edit right away. In the disambig page it says

Mother Motherland (also called "The Motherland" or "Mother Russia")

Clearly who wrote that thought about it and was not expeditive. You say not all statues have exactly the same name. Therefore, I won't suggest anything in order not to mix up, just ignore my previous suggestions. I'll just be currious to see how you'll fix it (out of simple curriousity to learn about these statues). Take your time. If there is some rutine stuff I can help after you do the critical edits, I'd be glad to help. :Dc76 15:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Gallery

This dab page loses its power without images. Would anyone object if I at least included a gallery of the Rodina Mat' statues? They are all monumental. They are completely part of their homelands, and have no parallel in, say, the US, where there wasn't even the concept of Homeland until 9/11. --Ancheta Wis 03:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC) To avoid the naming controversies, I propose to label the images "Rodina-mat’ Russian: Родина-мать" + their cities. --Ancheta Wis 03:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

• Rodina-mat’ Родина-мать, Kiev
  Rodina-mat’ Родина-мать, Kiev
• 
  Rodina-mat’ Родина-мать зовёт!, Volgograd

I object. Those images are unhelpful to the reader trying to find his intended article. Additionally, this page should also be edited to conform to the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). Ewlyahoocom 06:01, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Wrong translation?

Yes I know that official translation for Родина is Motherland, but wouldn’t it be more correct to translate it to homeland or at least use it as german Heimat, since the closest to truth translation is ancestral land. DVoit 17:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

True. I suppose the fact that land is referred to as mother made foreigners think that it means motherland, and then someone on Wikipedia decided to be more accurate and instead of deconstructing the cliche simply added the motherly epithet to it, so it's now sort of a double motherland. --Humanophage (talk) 15:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Any translator will tell you that the translation is wrong, you should not duplicate information even if it's partially contained in several words; it's as if to translate "старая рухлядь" as "old old junk". How about calling it "Mother Land"? It's both "Мать" and "Родина". — Hellerick (talk) 06:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Bad link in edit summary

What I meant here was Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Set index articles... -- JHunterJ 11:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

DIsagreed. "set index" is drawing a very thin line and creates confusion. DAB is defined "list of articles that may have the same name". "heterogeneous/homogeneous" is wikipedians opinion or speculation and source of possible bickering. remember the KISS rule. THe dab page guideline went into spiral of wikilawyering. `'Míkka 15:44, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

These aren't just items that share the same name, these are all statues sharing not just the name but the same subject/theme. It would make a much better article as a Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Summary or multi-stub pagesEwlyahoocom 17:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I have moved this page to List of Mother Motherland statues. I believe this page should develop along the lines of List of statues of Lenin, where most of the statues by tehemselves are probably not notable but together on one page they make for a decent article. Ewlyahoocom 20:08, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

My point, Mikkalai, was that you reverted my cleanup of this page as a disambiguation, so I conceded that it may be better viewed as a set index article instead. If you insist that it's a dab, then it needs to be written like a dab. -- JHunterJ 00:30, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

• Unlike Lenin a real person, and we have list of statues of Lenin. ""Mother Motherland" is a Russian cliche. There is no statues to a cliche. There are diffrent objects (and not all of them are statues) called "Mother Motherland", some of them commonly but erroneously. All of them are either have wikipedia articles or expernal links with full possibilities to write wikipedia articles. This is a disambig page: a page that lists articles (or potential articlea) about different things that may be calles by the same term. `'Míkka 08:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
  • After a while, Lenin became a cliche. So what's the difference? Maybe it should be a page like Uncle Sam where the article is about the concept and we can have a section detailing the statues. Or do you really believe that an article like Lady Justice needs to be split into umpteen articles about each statue? Ewlyahoocom 21:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
    • ""Lady Justice" has content. Be my guest to write "Mother Motherland" article if you manage to find reliable source for a general article. Right now you can write about each individual statue, and these individual statues with the same name are assessed thru dusaibiguation paga named Mother Motherland. Just like we don't have List of cities named London, there is not reason to have "list of statues named "mother Motherland". The disambig page is exactly this: list of things named <something>. `'Míkka 20:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
      • You got an answer for just about everything, don't ya, mikkalai? Ewlyahoocom 20:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
        • I wish I had. I'd be rich and not wasting my time here. `'Míkka 23:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)