Talk:MotoCzysz E1pc

Isle of Man races: "did not finish" one race, "won" another

This article says the E1pc won the Isle of Man TT Zero electric motorcycle race on June 10 with an average, and record-breaking for this class of electric motorcycle, 98 mph lap time.

The current WP article only speaks of the June 12th race, the TTXGP, which indicates that the E1pc did not finish. Is the June 10th race important? Worth adding to the article? N2e (talk) 00:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

just added it. Could use some expansion too.Focomoso (talk) 00:21, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Cool. But You should consider fixing a few things in your edit. The race with a DNF was the TTXGP. And the citation should be improved to reflect the source metadata; see the other PopSci citation for an example. N2e (talk) 00:27, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm new to the referencing thing. I think I worked it out... The 2009 TTXGP was a dnf, the 2010 was a win. I'm pretty sure that the win is something worthy of going in the intro and the dnf, not. (A lot of bikes dnf a lot of races.) I updated the racing section to give both results. Focomoso (talk) 00:44, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Ah... they change the name to TT Zero. Now it all makes sense. Focomoso (talk) 01:27, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

The TTXGP was replaced by the TT Zero as an official sanctioned Isle of Man TT race class for the 2010 Isle of Man TT Races. The TT Zero regulations have just a single class for electric motor-cycles, the PRO and OPEN sections being discontinued along with the 3b, 3c and 3d classes. Agljones (talk) 10:01, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

How many models are called "E1pc"?

Someone wrote in inline comments: '"redesigned" relative to what? the E1pc was new for this race in June 2010, and was completely designed in the previous five months according to media reports.'

Yes, but see http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2010-06/inside-story-motoczysz-e1pc-worlds-most-advanced-electric-motorcycle "This year’s all-new 2010 E1pc is... a ground-up redesign of 2009’s largely off-the-shelf approach." The bike that dnf in 2009 was also called the e1pc and this article is about both designs of this bike. Focomoso (talk) 19:31, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, if that is true, both the 2009 and the 2010 offerings from MotoCzysz are called the exact same thing, then the article needs to make that clear, and do it from cited reliable sources. As it is, the article seems to be largely about the one model described for 2010, and that is where the durably-archived-media sources seem to concentrate. N2e (talk) 20:22, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

MotoCzysz E1pc

The MotoCzysz entry for the TTXGP race held during the 2009 Isle of Man TT races is described as the MotoCzysz E1pc entered in the PRO 3a class. The source for this information can be found on page 15 of the TTXGP - The eGrand Prix Isle of Man 12th June 2009 Copyright © 2009 TTXGP Ltd. The entry is described as #5 (E1pc) ridden by Mark Miller with a weight of 215 kg and a range of 150 miles @ 60 mph. It is quoted by the manufacture of having a 0-60 mph time of 3.5 seconds. Agljones (talk) 22:20, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's great then. Thanks. That appears to answer the question I put in the previous section. It would seem then that we can think of it as same model, two different years, just like the 1963 Chevrolet Corvette can be quite different from the 1964 Chevrolet Corvette.

So, do others agree then that we have a 2009 MotoCzysz E1pc, sourced by the reference given by Agljones above, and a 2010 MotoCzysz E1pc, sourced by the several sources currently in the article, from Popular Science to the 2010 TT website and/or documents? N2e (talk) 03:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

The two models of the E1pc look similar externally. The 2009 MotoCzysz E1pc was entered in the PRO 3a class of the 2009 TTXGP. The 2010 TT Zero race was a single class for electric driven motor-cycles and the article at www.popsci.com suggests that the E1pc was re-engineered internally. I have yet to find a reliable source for the 2009 TTXGP, I think the MotoCzysz E1pc bike failed to qualify for the race and allowed to start at the discretion of the race organisers along with a handful of other entries that had failed to qualify. The MotoCzysz E1pc in the 2009 race may have retired at Braddan Bridge on lap 1 and again I cannot confirm this. The 1963 Chevrolet Corvette was the new model ? Agljones (talk) 08:09, 16 June 2010 (UTC)