Talk:Mountain Meadows Massacre/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 13:44, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Prose

Lede

• MOS:LEDE usually recommends a max lede of four paragraphs. Any reason we can't condense this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:50, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Adjusted the lead but it is so hard to condense...take a look and tell me what you think. Shearonink (talk) 15:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• made plans to attack the wagon train. - why? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:50, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Adjusted - should be clearer now. Shearonink (talk) 15:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• hasty fortification. - their what? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:50, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

The wagons were drawn up into a circle and a trench dug into the center for the women & children to seek cover in. This is mentioned "down thread" but have adjusted and I think it is easier to understand now. Shearonink (talk) 15:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• Today - MOS:CURRENT Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:50, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah...deleted. Thanks. Shearonink (talk) 15:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

General

• The group was relatively wealthy, and planned to restock its supplies in Salt Lake City, as did most wagon trains at the time. - uncited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, it's true but trying to find a specific cite that supports that atm is beyond my brain at the moment. I'll try to circle back within the next few days and get a cite. Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• Mormon apostle George A. Smith - can we reword to avoid link together like this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Deleted one of the links but I think it is important to mention how far up the chain of command George A Smith was. Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• Parowan, Utah, traveled throughout southern Utah - do we need to say Utah this much? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Nope, you're right, adjusted. Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• (near present-day Kanosh) - CURRENT Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Adjusted. Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• Why do we have a panorama? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Sigh. That was a loooooooong negotiation between myself and the person who took the image. I think it's the only photo WP has of the area as it appears now., I think it's important to give readers a sense of what this place looks like, not just linotypes from 19th century newspapers and so on. I seem to remember the photog originally posted it with an unassociated person present and this present image has the person removed? Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Found the discussions in the talk page archives, see February 2019/Archive 20 and December 2018 Archive 20. I misremembered the discussion as being loooooong, it actually wasn't, but the point being that there was an editorial consensus established about the size and placement of the photo. The photo did used to be bigger and originally had extraneous modern people in it. Shearonink (talk) 17:01, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• Further investigations were cut short by the American Civil War in 1861,[34] but proceeded in 1871 when prosecutors obtained the affidavit of militia member Philip Klingensmith. Klingensmith had been a bishop and blacksmith from Cedar City; by the 1870s, however, he had left the church and moved to Nevada.[35]

• Lee was arrested on November 7, 1874.[36] Dame, Philip Klingensmith, Ellott Willden, and George Adair, Jr. were indicted and arrested while warrants were obtained to pursue the arrests of four others (Haight, Higbee, William C. Stewart, and Samuel Jukes) who had gone into hiding. Klingensmith escaped prosecution by agreeing to testify.[37]

• Brigham Young removed some participants including Haight and Lee from the LDS Church in 1870. The U.S. posted bounties of $500 ($10233[38] in present-day funds) each for the capture of Haight, Higbee, and Stewart, while prosecutors chose not to pursue their cases against Dame, Willden and Adair.

- I think we could probably merge some of these paragraphs, they are quite short. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Merged. Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• The U.S. posted bounties of $500 ($10233[38] in present-day funds) each for the capture of Haight, Higbee, and Stewart, while prosecutors chose not to pursue their cases against Dame, Willden and Adair. - uncited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Cited and corrected. It was actually $5,000. Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• National newspapers covered the Lee trials closely from 1874 to 1876, and his execution in 1877 was widely covered. - uncited. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I'll have to circle back to this...I mean, Mark Twain wrote about it in one of his books and Lee's trial got a lot of "press" in the contemporary media (newspapers) but getting this cited...will get back to it. Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• Historians have ascribed the massacre to a number of factors, including strident Mormon teachings in the years prior to the massacre, war hysteria, and alleged involvement of Brigham Young. - feels out of place as a single sentence, and is uncited. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

This is an artifact resulting from the way the article was originally set-up. The entire next three sections cite the statement and I haven't been able to figure out how to make it more clear. Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• ..[70][71][72][73][74] - two punctuation marks, and could we WP:BUNDLING these? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Nothing personal but the help page for bundling? Yikes, kind of obtuse...I'm working on it, want to keep them all, hate to lose any of the info these cites provide, especially since I don't have access to some of the specialized sources some past editors have had. Will update here when I get the coding & structure solved. Please let me work on it myself, I'll ask for help if I get completely stumped. I've done nesting/bundling before but not lately... Shearonink (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Shearonink (talk) 16:11, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:44, 27 August 2021 (UTC)