Talk:Mpemba effect/Archives/ 2

Science Experiment

At the beginning of 2004 11, Ye Sasa（叶莎莎）、Yu Shunxi（庾顺禧） and Dong Jiawen（董佳雯), After more than 100 times of experiment, tens of thousands of data, get the conclusion "with the same quality and the external environment,Mpemba effect does not appear, the hotter liquid could not freeze earlier than colder" 「同质量同外部环境的情况下，姆潘巴现象不会出现，热的液体不可能先结冰」

"热牛奶比冷牛奶结冰快 沪3名高中女生破译(Chinese)". XinHua.

Mpanba may be a misreading of Aristotle,"The fact that the water has previously been WARMED contributes to its freezing quickly".(WARMED,not WARM WATER) Waeping (talk) 05:33, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

If you have a reliable source for an experiment that failed to replicate the Mpemba effect then this should be added. Martin Hogbin (talk) 08:20, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Waeping, I would like to add something based on what you say but do you have an English translation of your source, or at least of an abstract from it. Martin Hogbin (talk) 13:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

According to [1] and [2], this was a high school science project. Paradoctor (talk) 16:19, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

In that case it cannot be considered as a reliable source except for the experiment itself, if we want to mention that. I think, in the light of other experiments mentioned and the origin of the term it might be OK to mention the school experiment. Martin Hogbin (talk) 16:47, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm for it, but I don't see how it would fit into the current article structure. Maybe this is a good time to start a "Reception/Impact/In culture" section? Paradoctor (talk) 17:10, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

The whole subject should probably be in that section though. There is no proper science anywhere in the whole thing. Martin Hogbin (talk) 18:27, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

If the sources say that, sure. After all, we have articles on everything. Paradoctor (talk) 19:30, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Please go ahead and add something. My point was simply that starting a new section on "Reception/Impact/In culture" was somewhat superfluous.

I would be very interested to hear your comments on the section above. Martin Hogbin (talk) 08:58, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

We should revise its definition for "the water has previously been warmed contributes to its freezing quickly"

Mpemba effect may be a 20th Century fraud(of April Fool's Day), for a book called 10 Scientific hoax of the twentieth century（20世纪的十大“科学骗局”，author：吴学安，Science Times,pic）Waeping (talk) 10:59, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

From this translation: "1980s, one in the UK students studying in Sri Lanka declared that he had found the conclusion of the laws of thermodynamics are wrong. Because in the refrigerator, hot water freeze faster than cold water. This discovery was immediately attracted world wide attention in the world of physics, but in the end after scientists demonstrated that this Sri Lankan students called "discovery" does not hold water." Nothing about fraud. If there is a book, could you please give us a citation? Paradoctor (talk) 12:32, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Science Experiment

At the beginning of 2004 11, Ye Sasa（叶莎莎）、Yu Shunxi（庾顺禧） and Dong Jiawen（董佳雯), After more than 100 times of experiment, tens of thousands of data, get the conclusion "with the same quality and the external environment,Mpemba effect does not appear, the hotter liquid could not freeze earlier than colder" 「同质量同外部环境的情况下，姆潘巴现象不会出现，热的液体不可能先结冰」

"热牛奶比冷牛奶结冰快 沪3名高中女生破译(Chinese)". XinHua.

Mpanba may be a misreading of Aristotle,"The fact that the water has previously been WARMED contributes to its freezing quickly".(WARMED,not WARM WATER) Waeping (talk) 05:33, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

If you have a reliable source for an experiment that failed to replicate the Mpemba effect then this should be added. Martin Hogbin (talk) 08:20, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Waeping, I would like to add something based on what you say but do you have an English translation of your source, or at least of an abstract from it. Martin Hogbin (talk) 13:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

According to [3] and [4], this was a high school science project. Paradoctor (talk) 16:19, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

In that case it cannot be considered as a reliable source except for the experiment itself, if we want to mention that. I think, in the light of other experiments mentioned and the origin of the term it might be OK to mention the school experiment. Martin Hogbin (talk) 16:47, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm for it, but I don't see how it would fit into the current article structure. Maybe this is a good time to start a "Reception/Impact/In culture" section? Paradoctor (talk) 17:10, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

The whole subject should probably be in that section though. There is no proper science anywhere in the whole thing. Martin Hogbin (talk) 18:27, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

If the sources say that, sure. After all, we have articles on everything. Paradoctor (talk) 19:30, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Please go ahead and add something. My point was simply that starting a new section on "Reception/Impact/In culture" was somewhat superfluous.

I would be very interested to hear your comments on the section above. Martin Hogbin (talk) 08:58, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

We should revise its definition for "the water has previously been warmed contributes to its freezing quickly"

Mpemba effect may be a 20th Century fraud(of April Fool's Day), for a book called 10 Scientific hoax of the twentieth century（20世纪的十大“科学骗局”，author：吴学安，Science Times,pic）Waeping (talk) 10:59, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

From this translation: "1980s, one in the UK students studying in Sri Lanka declared that he had found the conclusion of the laws of thermodynamics are wrong. Because in the refrigerator, hot water freeze faster than cold water. This discovery was immediately attracted world wide attention in the world of physics, but in the end after scientists demonstrated that this Sri Lankan students called "discovery" does not hold water." Nothing about fraud. If there is a book, could you please give us a citation? Paradoctor (talk) 12:32, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Modify the definition

Under the same conditions,warmer water can't freeze faster than colder water.But the water that been warmed can freeze faster than natural water Aristotle, Meteorology Part 12:the water has previously been warmed contributes to its freezing quicklyWaeping (talk) 11:38, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

This is already covered in Mpemba effect#Historical context. Paradoctor (talk) 12:06, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Odd subject

There must be many effects that were not reproducible. What is notable about this one? 84.226.171.250 (talk) 05:37, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

What establishes notability is the sources. If other effects that aren't reproducible are considered by numerous journal articles, why don't they have articles? If the history of science were edited and pruned to remove all the incorrect and "odd" hypotheses, that would be a disservice to the scientific method. The effect may not be particularly reproducible, but the way people have quantified and explained that is what science is all about. rspεεr (talk) 05:43, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Additions relating to work by W. Zheng et al.

We have seen ths pseudo science before. When the references are checked they are either from unreliable sources or not about the Mpemba effect. Please state clearly exactly what sources say what. Martin Hogbin (talk) 10:14, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Ecqsun, please explain your additions. At present they are word salad. Martin Hogbin (talk) 12:24, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Can someone else please remove reverted additions by Ecqsun, it makes no sense at all. Martin Hogbin (talk) 19:47, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Warm water is the same density as ice

Ice is less dense than water of the same temperature. It floats. Warm water is less dense than colder water. It floats to the top of colder water. 50.247.106.220 (talk) 22:55, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Ice and warm water float? Irrelevant. However, similar density might make the transition to ice require less energy. Anarchangel (talk) 22:58, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Hellooooo Is there anyone here?

Anyone?

- I'm here. What's up — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.199.144.181 (talk) 07:27, 23 January 2015 (UTC)