Talk:Mpondwe school massacre

Merger

I propose merging Lhubiriha Secondary School attack into 2023 Lhubiriha school attack. Sherenk1 (talk) 11:41, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

They should be merged, but the article's title should be Mpondwe school massacre, as with Erfurt school massacre, Kumba school massacre, Osaka school massacre etc. The settlement is much more well-known than the school, which doesn't have an article. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 15:06, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Support merge Those articles cover the same topic. Moving the article’s title would probably also be good. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:50, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

To the title I suggest? Jim 2 Michael (talk) 21:11, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Yup. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:50, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Speedy Merge into Lhubiriha Secondary School attack. Both articles cover the same event, so we should resolve this quickly. I believe including the year is not logical because we don't need to differentiate this event using the year, unless there was some other attack at this school. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:54, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Why have Lhubiriha in the title? The school is only known locally, so it's unlikely to ever become part of the common name of this massacre. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 22:17, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

I mean, is the town a particularly well-known one? We can always provide a redirect to "Mpondwe school attack" or something as well. I guess it doesn't matter either way, but my main concern is that the year not be included because it is not needed. Ideally one of the two titles (one with the name and one with the town) is the title and the other is a redirect. DarkSide830 (talk) 01:26, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the relationship between the two names, but (some) Ugandan sources are calling it the Mpondwe Lhubiriha Secondary School and that appears to be what it says on the gate. The Mpondwe-Lhubiriha Town Council also appears to be a thing. Having said that, Mpondwe school massacre works for me. Moscow Mule (talk) 02:25, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I have just WP:BOLDly changed the other article to a redirect: all its points were covered by this one, which was created earlier, is more developed, and has had more contributors & edits. The page history's there if anyone feels like checking. Now, consensus on the best title? Moscow Mule (talk) 03:11, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Why the reference to the LRA?

Why does the Background section lead off with several sentences about an attack made 35 years ago by an unrelated terrorist group in a completely different part of the country? I've tried to figure out the reasoning for it, and I have discovered no good reason for its inclusion. If the point is to illustrate the modern history of terrorism in Uganda, then that point can be made much more effectively, with a more general statement. I hesitate to remove the material, because I feel as if I must be missing something due to my general lack of knowledge in this subject area.—catsmoke ^talk 04:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

The LRA insurgency began in Uganda in 1987; the Aboke abductions were in 1996. They're included there because it was a previous major attack of a similar type at a school in Uganda by a major ally of the perpetrators of this massacre. It's bizarre but true & relevant that in this case the Christian terrorist Lord's Resistance Army & Islamic terrorist Allied Democratic Forces are allies who carry out the same types of attacks in the same countries. It's also something that most readers won't previously know. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 12:49, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

There are two sources that the Wikipedia article on the ADF uses as information to support the idea that there is a connection between the ADF and the LRA.

1. One of the cited sources is an International Crisis Group Policy Briefing titled "Eastern Congo: The ADF-NALU's Lost Rebellion" and it does not even mention the LRA.

2. The other cited source is a Wikileaks-published cable originally sent by the Ugandan embassy at Kampala titled "Government Demands Action Against Ugandan Rebels In Congo".

1. Item 3 quotes Ugandan Minister of Security Amama Mbabzi as saying that "the LRA was preparing to fight and 'making connections' with other groups". It does not specify which groups.
2. Item 3 quotes the Minister as referring to "four Ugandan rebel groups: the ADF, the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), the Peoples' Redemption Army (PRA), and the National Army for the Liberation Uganda (NALU)", but nothing in the text leads to the deduction that any of those are necessarily among the groups with which the LRA is "making connections".
3. Item 8 says that "Military spokespersons also claim that they captured documentation and found other information during the raids linking the ADF to the LRA. The [Government of Uganda] has made allegations of possible ties between the two groups in the past. When Mbabazi hinted at the same allegations during his briefing on March 31, members of the diplomatic corps asked to see the information." There is no sign that information was forthcoming, and therefore those claims made by the military have had no substantiation.
4. Item 9 says that the government of Uganda "has made allegations about collaboration between the ADF, LRA...in the past, resulting in some skepticism within the diplomatic community", which indicates that those previous allegations have never been confirmed (since the repetition of the same allegation was met with suspicion).

This leads to the conclusion that there is no good reason to propose that the ADF and LRA have any significant connection.—catsmoke ^talk 03:19, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Even if there's no connection between the LRA & ADF, it's relevant that both groups' insurgencies have included major attacks on schools in Uganda. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 16:38, 24 June 2023 (UTC)