Talk:Muhammad al-Qunawi/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 20:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Happy to review this article.

Assessment

General

This was a fascinating article to review HaEr48, sorry for the slight delay but I had to work hard to grasp some of the concepts. Please don't hesitate to correct my errors, all made in good faith. Some general points: For consistency, shouldn't the Turkish and Arabic terms all be in italics (not all are)? I thin they are, except for place names (e.g Topkapı Palace) or words already appearing in English dictionaries (e.g. qibla and salat). Let me know if there's something I missed. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Looks good. Amitchell125 (talk) 06:44, 3 August 2020 (UTC) I find it useful that notable figures in the article have their dates given (I know others don’t), but then don’t all these dates have to be verified? Interesting point. In my experience very basic biographical information such as reign years or geographic origin mentioned in passing tend to be omitted (even in FAs!), probably because they are not likely to be challenged, following the reasoning in WP:SKYBLUE or WP:OVERCITE. I prefer not adding them there is a reason to doubt the dates given, let me know if you think they are needed. HaEr48 (talk) 21:14, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Let's leave things as they are, as your reply reassures me. It can always be discussed if the point comes up in the future. Amitchell125 (talk) 06:44, 3 August 2020 (UTC) I would add a hatnote at the top of the article Not to be confused with Sadr al-Din al-Qunawi. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Lead section/infobox

Link astrolabe; quadrant (Quadrant (instrument)); Arabic; Turkish (Turkish language); mosques. Linked quadrant. I think Arabic, Turkish and mosques are common enough to be MOS:OL? I hesitate about astrolabe, after the other feedback it is only mentioned as the adjectival form "astrolabic", and I don't want to give the impression that Al-Qunawi's work was about the astrolabe itself. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Understood. Amitchell125 (talk) 06:52, 3 August 2020 (UTC) As the main text says “astrolabic quadrant”, I think the lead needs to as well. Changed back to "astrolobe quadrant" because it seems to be translation used by Arslan. Updated body as well. HaEr48 (talk) 21:14, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Done. HaEr48 (talk) I would unlink the links to timekeeping, as they don’t lead where you expect them to. The history of timekeeping and timekeeping itself aren’t the same thing. Done. For some reason, that's where timekeeping leads to. You make a good point, maybe one day a standalone article on "timekeeping" needs to be created. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Who is David A. King? Introduced. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Add {{circa]] to date of death in the infobox. Done. HaEr48 (talk) Ref 4 (King) refers to him as Muhammad ibn Kātib Sinān. Consider adding 'also known in texts as Muhammad ibn Kātib Sinān (or something similar). The lead already mentions Ibn al-Katib Sinan as part of the name. Ibn Katib Sinan is just a version without the article "al" - a different way of expressing the same name in English. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Understood. Amitchell125 (talk) 06:54, 3 August 2020 (UTC) He is also named Muhammad ibn Yusuf by King (King 1979). Add this too? Good find, added. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Origin/Life

Unlink Istanbul, (see MOS:OL). Done. HaEr48 (talk) Link Edirne; Turkish (Turkish language). Linked Edirne, but wouldn't Turkish be overlinking? HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ... he "had met… - I would replace this with ‘al-Qunawi had met...’, as it occurs at the beginning of a section. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) He specialised … - ‘Al-Qunawi’ specialised…’ sounds better imo, following a sentence that includes the name of another person. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Use r.  consistently in this section. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Overall, his works have been attested… - Why overall? Removed. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ...According to one of his works…, why not ‘According to his Kitāb al‐aṣl al‐muʿaddil…’? I felt which work is not important (and might be distracting) in this context, we're just saying this is an autobiographical information found in his work. Is it okay? 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) A reader may decide the name of the work is important, so I would include the title of the work. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:33, 3 August 2020 (UTC) Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC) ... presumably referring to the Ottoman network of astronomers. - I don’t think you’ve paraphrased Fazlıoğlu correctly, as he says the astronomers would have been from among his Ottoman friends and students who had studied ʿAlī al‐Qūshjī and the achievements of ʿilm al‐mīqāt of classical Islam. I changed into the following, does it work? presumably referring to the Ottoman astronomers in his social and intellectual circles. These astronomers learned the works of the Samarkand astronomer Ali al-Qushji (died 1474), who continued ... Fine now, except imo presumably makes this part of the sentence sound editorial. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:40, 3 August 2020 (UTC) Removed. HaEr48 (talk) 14:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC) He likely learned the works of… ... Ali al-Qushji – that may be true, but it doesn't appear to be what Fazlıoğlu writes. Thanks for catching that. reworded as above. ...attested in the late fifteenth and early sixteenth century, including during the reigns of,... - I would improve the prose slightly by amending this to ‘attested in the late fifteenth and early sixteenth century, during the reigns of…’.. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Works

No need for (2016) and (2007), as they are in the citations. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ... there are eleven… - consider improving the prose a little by amending to ‘... there are eleven works…’. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ... he reused information… - avoid potential confusion by amending this to ‘... Al-Qunawi reused information…’. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ... the timetable of the daily prayers… - unlink timetable, as salat is linked in the same sentence. Timetable links to Salat times which is specifically about the timing of the salat, while salat is a more general article about the ritual itself. I think they are distinct enough and both useful for reader to find additional context? HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Now understood, my apologies. However, some readers might expect the link to timetable to lead to Schedule—I can't see a way around that at the moment. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:56, 3 August 2020 (UTC) Al-Qunawi authored various works, all on timekeeping or astronomical instruments. Most, not all, according to Fazlıoğlu. Ah, good point. I confused it with Arslan which does say "all". I made it say "most or all" and cite both. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ...13 known works… - imo the sentence would look better if 13 was a word, as nine is (MOS:NUMERAL is OK with this). Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Link sine; ratio scale (Level of measurement#Ratio scale); azimuth. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) In the second paragraph, I would amend The book’s twenty chapters… to ‘Hadiyat al-Muluk’s twenty chapters…’. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ...various curves and arcs. - just 'arcs', as are these terms not the same thing in this context? (see Arc (geometry) for a specific definition of ‘arc’). Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) The meaning of Hadiyat al-Muluk in English is present in the lead, but not in the main text. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ...Al-Qunawi's Hadiyat al-Muluk (undated, but completed during the reign of Bayezid II, ending in 1512) deals with a type of quadrant called the rub' al-muqantarat … - I could find the reference to this. My bad, I mixed in info from other pages of the same work and failed to include the citations. Added more specific citations now. HaEr48 (talk) 21:14, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Link Shams al-Din al-Khalili. Already linked in #Life. According to WP:DUPLINK it should only be linked once in the body. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Whoops. Amitchell125 (talk) 08:00, 3 August 2020 (UTC) Unlink sunset, sunrise, dawn, and midday (common terms). Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Link solar longitude. Already linked (earlier in the section). HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) ...with the word brothers in the title… - this looks as if brothers should be in italics. Done. HaEr48 (talk) ...a new astronomical calculation method. - could you provide details here about this method? Unfortunately, can't find details in Fazlıoğlu (where I cite this) or in my search attempts. HaEr48 (talk) 19:35, 2 August 2020 (UTC) No worries. Amitchell125 (talk) 08:02, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Legacy
...of Central Asia. - it’s not clear if this is referring to both astronomers or not. Done (I meant both). HaEr48 (talk) ... started a new trend… - it needs to clearer what 'new trend' is being referred to. Reworded to clarify

Bibliography

Link King (twice) (David A. King (historian). Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Arslan is also available in Turkish (https://nazariyat.org/sayilar/4/m0026), consider adding this information, even though the article is in the English version of Wikipedia. Done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC) I believe the correct the details about King (2004) are: King, David A. (2004). In Synchrony With The Heavens: Studies In Astronomical Timekeeping And Instrumentation In Medieval Islamic Civilization (Studies I-IX). Vol. 1: The Call of the Muezzin. Leiden, Boston: Brill. ISBN 978-90-04-12233-8. Updated title , location, and volume. Slightly changed volume to "The Call of the Muezzin (studies I-IX)", because those study numbers are specific to volume 1. HaEr48 (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

On hold

Hi​, I'm placing the article on hold for week (until 8 August), so that there's time for the comments above to be addressed. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:30, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Amitchell125, thank you very much for your thorough review. I replied above. I have mostly applied your suggestion, but I have some queries on others. Let me know what you think. HaEr48 (talk) 21:16, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Passing

I think you've done a terrific job here, and congratulations on passing. Amitchell125 (talk) 21:06, 3 August 2020 (UTC)