Talk:Muhammad al-Tawil of Huesca

Split?

I just created a stubby article at Banū Ṭawīl not realizing that most of that information was already here. I think the family should be split out, or else this article retitled. Srnec (talk) 05:19, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

I included it here because I had not viewed the Banu al-Tawil as satisfying WP:GNG, having only seen them mentioned a) in primary accounts, notably al-Udri b) as secondary asides when talking about the Banu Qasi or the Tujibis, or c) similar passing reference when talking about the chaos of Huesca and the Upper March in the first half of the 10th century. Muhammad al-Tawil, on the other hand, seemed unquestionably notable, since I had a published biographical article dedicated to him. With the leeway given for adding information to a related article when a page on the direct subject doesn't exist, I stuck a summary of the Banu al-Tawil onto his page and made a Banu al-Tawil redirect here. I did the same for the Banu Amrus, effectively an add-on to Amrus ibn Yusuf's page.

That all being said, I recently came across Phillipe Sénac's Les seigneurs de la Marche (ashabu al-tagri): les Banu 'Amrus et les Banu Sabrit de Huesca, which I guess could justify notability and hence independent articles for both families. I would prefer the relevant one be on the Banu Shabrit (as a target for the Banu Tawil redirect) because that is the larger family of which the al-Tawilis are a subset, and it also includes Muhammad al-Tawil, the greatest of them all but by definition not a descendant of himself. Agricolae (talk) 10:49, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay. I will try to execute a split. I will check out Sénac's article. Do you think any of the other family members are notable enough for articles? Srnec (talk) 20:34, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Of the Banu Shabrit/al-Tawil? no. To a degree their careers break down into two categories - some are so chaotic that they are best understood in relation to each other (attacking and killing each other, being given the town/cora of a rebelling brother, the town throwing out one brother in favor of another, etc.) that they are best dealt with together, and the other group whose rule was so uneventful that al-Udri just says when they took over and when they died, with no events in between. I don't think anyone has gotten enough coverage, as a subject themselves, to merit an article. The only other of the Muladi rulers of the Upper March that may deserve one is Amrus ibn Umar ibn Amrus (al-Tawil's predecessor, of the Banu Amrus).

Note that a narrative of the Banu al-Tawil got incorporated into Upper March some months back - more than is in this article or your new version, so that might be a good source for material. Agricolae (talk) 23:43, 6 December 2020 (UTC)