Talk:Murder of Brenda Gerow

Name

Has it not been released? 68.156.95.34 (talk) 08:09, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Online forums and a Facebook page have claimed she was identified as a woman from New Hampshire and did state her name, yet there are no reliable sources, such as news reports, to support the claim.--GouramiWatcher^(?) 04:28, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Can someone explain why the article is named "Brenda Gerow" if we do not have any reliable sources to back that up? - Location (talk) 15:31, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The article was originally published as "Pima County Jane Doe" before identification took place. The victim was reportedly identified, according to online forums. As the creator of the article, I chose not to make any changes until reliable sources confirmed this. Someone else ended up moving the article without discussion or proper sourcing.--GouramiWatcher^(?) 17:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, if we can't delete the page (even though I can't find any sources with any depth of coverage), then somebody needs to request a move back to Pima County Jane Doe. When @DN-boards1: made the move they left a disambiguation page, so it can't simply be moved back without an admin. Geogene (talk) 18:26, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, the victim's brother was the one who came forward. DN-boards1 (talk) 18:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

According to Facebook posts, which I have not seen. I removed that as a BLP violation. The rest of the sourcing, throughout the article, is either extremely shallow in coverage or non-RS. Geogene (talk) 18:31, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't want to knock the Afd's closer and participants, but I find it really strange that it was closed as "strong consensus to keep" when no one even checked to see if reliable sources supported the named topic (i.e. that Brenda Gerow was an American murder victim). I am happy to tag this with a formal move request. Any objections? - Location (talk) 19:00, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree that the name should be changed back to "Pima County Jane Doe" until reliable sources confirm Brenda Gerow was the victim. Sources that are both primary and secondary reinforce all information from the discovery of the body and finding the photograph of "Flower Girl." --GouramiWatcher^(?) 19:20, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Those sources are difficult to find, and what little is available is that the police are requesting information. That's why the article tried to make due with Web bulletin boards and Blogspot. That isn't notability. It's not lasting and there is no depth. And not to be insensitive, but very few murders meet the notability standards. This is one of millions that doesn't. Geogene (talk) 19:27, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The thing is, the unknown decedent, the Pia County Jane Doe, has been removed from the missing persons databases, etc. Meaning, police ID'd the victim. Since the only one we know of is Gerow, and Bill Gerow said he was in contact with the police, it's safe to say that the decedent was indeed Brenda Gerow. DN-boards1 (talk) 19:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The Pima County Jane Doe was (apparently) removed from the databases, and no sources said anything about it. So that's OR, and further evidence of non-notability. Please stop talking about the victim's possible living relatives without RS. Geogene (talk) 19:43, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. Once again, the article should be moved back to Pima County Jane Doe until an "RS" confirms and all of this ugly deletion argument gets resolved.--GouramiWatcher^(?) 04:28, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

As reliable sources have announced the body was Brenda's, I have moved the page to "Murder of Brenda Gerow."--GouramiWatcher^(?) 18:25, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

AFD, DRV and page move

I have moved this page back to Pima County Jane Doe. This was neither the consensus of the AFD nor the DRV but sometimes you just have to do what is necessary to resolve the issue. To me this is simple, editors may or may not agree that this crime is notable but the evidence that this victim is Brenda Gerow is simply not there in RS. On that basis we should go with the RS and not have an article in mainspace naming a victim who may or may not be that person. If people disagree with this action, I suggest you go for a requested move discussion as a more fruitful way of reaching a consensus on how to deal with the page on this unfortunate person. Spartaz ^Humbug! 09:20, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I support this action. - Location (talk) 09:49, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Also support these actions. On notability, putting that aside for the forseeable future. Geogene (talk) 22:19, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Obvious support - If Brenda was her real name then there needs to be sources confirming this which judging not only by our searches but this move too there clearly isn't any. –Davey2010^Talk 23:56, 19 September 2015 (UTC)