Talk:Muses

References

This article relies heavily on the first chapter of Detienne's "les maîtres de la verité" but the book isn't mentioned anywhere... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.64.40.23 (talk) 18:09, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation I

There's also a (Britpo) band named Muse.

conventions so far would say put them at Muse (band) and put a link here. -- Tarquin 09:15 Oct 9, 2002 (UTC)

This needs a real disambig page: Muse, Muse (band), MusE, MuSE - Omegatron 15:32, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. It is difficult to find information on the band when searching for them - Az Paz 12:30, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Real disambiguation page created - Az Paz 12:50, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Isn't it more likely that most people visiting this page would be looking for the indie band rather than the mythological Ancient Greek deities? Sbiki 16:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

With Muse (disambiguation) the recent re-insertion of the little advert is not required. Deleted.--Wetman 01:27, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Convention would have a link to the band included. For exmaple Chili pepper, Gondwanaland, Placebo, Atreyu, Franz Ferdinand and so on. This is a case for reinstertion. It's addition does not degrade the quality of the page. Space Erased 11:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Note that these other pages do not have general dab pages, as Muse (disambiguation) does. The primary meaning of muse is still muse: ask an adult. --Wetman 05:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Now, those who have created the dozens of redirects for Muse intending Muse (Greek mythology) might rectify their disservice to the Wikipedia reader and the trouble caused for adult Wikipedians by revising the double redirects that have been created. --Wetman 18:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

---

This article makes the statement that originally there were 3 Muses, but later they were 9 in number -- & with different names. (This claim is also repeated in Zeus.) A quick look at my primary Greek Mythology reference -- H.R. Rose's A Handbook of Greek Mythology, which is usually reliable & very detailed -- does not mention this fact. Can someone offer verification that this was the case? -- llywrch 22:29, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Added the reference to chapter and verse of Pausanias. Bacchiad 23:49, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

---

Somebody please complete the sentence in 4th para in section "Cults of the Muses". "... in Boeotia all played host to festival in which poetic recitations were". The sentence just ends there abruptly. Jay 21:09, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

ah.. thanks User:Bacchiad. Jay 15:45, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm a rookie Wiki - what do you think of my addition?

I added the "functions in literature" section, and also listed the props and poses often associated with certain muses. Whaddaya think?

I liked it. The only (small) problem I saw was the formatting. For literary block quotes, it's preferred to use

colons to format it like this

rather than

spaces to format it like this.

Bacchiad 21:02, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Kickin'. The spaces showed automatically when I pulled from another site, so your change is appropriate and welcome.

-Circular 2:46AM, 28 Dec 2004 (PCT)

Muses and Creativity Today

I found the article very interesting. Does anyone know anything about modern Muses? I'm curious about where artists and creative people in particular get their inspiration from. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

On inspiration: I am running a virtual gallery called Broken Muses being inspired by broken mannequins. --Brandlm 21:04, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

• Drugs. (Oct.)
• More seriously, "they rip each other off".
• Most seriously: to pay the bills. "Necessity is the mother of invention".

---

The accompanying painting is of the three Graces, not the Muses.

Oop. Our anonymous friend is right. I've moved them to Charites. (That's Wikipedian for "Graces" eh.) --Wetman 00:57, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Helike

Hello classicists! Recently a moon of Jupiter (planet) was named Helike. The namers state that Helike was one of the Muses. I don't see this named listed here and am wondering whether it was actually an alternative name for the whole group, since they came from Mount Helicon. Is this correct? (I've tried googling to no avail). The Singing Badger 21:48, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Best I've found are some sources that have Helike be the tutelary goddess of Mount Helikon (there's a recurring theme about willows, too), which was the dwelling place of the Muses. In that sense, Helike is a composite of all of the Muses. If you think Helike is bad, try Eukelade --I've found absolutely nothing about her, which is surprising considering the high quality sites that exist about Greek mythology.

Urhixidur 04:02, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)

Helike was one of the nymphs that nurtured Zeus in his infancy on Crete [1], hence the astronomy connection. But Mount Helicon is in Boeotia, the haunt of the Muses, not strongly-Zeus-connected. The willow connection is suggestive: The "Willow Mountain" Helicon and also a quite distinct "willow-nymph"— just as there were oak tree nymphs and ash-nymphs (Dryads and Meliai). --Wetman 16:16, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Other Words

• Are the words "mosaic" or "mouse" related to the muses? I assume that "amusement" or "bemused" is. Perhaps "Cleo-patra", is named after one of the muses, and her name meant, "the father of history"? The "calliope" is a musical instrument, isn't it? (Oct.)

Mosaic indeed derives from Medieval Latin musaicum: "work of the Muses". The root out of which Greek "Mousa" originally stems is *menth- whose basic meaning is "to know", "to learn". So they are "the Ones Who Know"; this is why they are invoked by poets, so as to tell them the truth, although the Mousai have also claimed (in Hesiod) that they can lie as well. Kalliope means "she of the beautiful voice". If the name has been given to an instrument or when I can't tell. Lucius Domitius 03:10, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

The name "Cleopatra" is a composite of "kleos" which means "glory", "renown" and "pater", meaning "father": her name essentially means something along the lines of "she who comes from a glorious father", or "she who is of a glorious pedigree" in more general terms. You are correct in that "kleos" and the name "Kleio" are of the same root, that is *kleu-, which essentially means "to hear". One cannot really say what "Kleio" means by the way, perhaps it is "the renowned one" or "she who knows the deeds of renown" i.e. history. Lucius Domitius 00:29, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Chronology

when are the names first attested? Does Hesiod have them? Or does Hesoid have the4 number nine? 85.232.167.109 17:32, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

It is already in Hesiod's "Theogony"; the catalogue of their names is in lines 77-9. They are nine in number (line 60), probably something to do with the fact that Zeus was having intercourse with Mnemosyne, their mother, for nine days (lines 53-6). Lucius Domitius 17:10, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• "The muses are typically invoked at or near the beginning of an epic poem or classical Greek story." What do you suppose was intended by a "classical Greek story"? A prose narrative that invoked a muse? Can you think of one? --Wetman 05:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The use of muse for a living person

I think this article is lacking information for the use of the word for a real living person. The first four headings only talk about mythical persons. The heading The concept of the Muse-poet somewhat goes into the other direction, but really just consists of a quote that does not say very much about the woman. So there is only this sentence left: The word muse may be used figuratively, to denote someone who inspires an artist. in the misc section. Have a look at the German Wikipedia articles: muse (mythical) and muse (relationship), the are not very good, but have about equal length. --84.178.77.42 20:48, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Your translation of the relevant German Wikipedia text on this extension of "muse" would be a welcome addition. See if you don't want to log in. --Wetman 01:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Nearly three years later (!), I added the template to request that a section based on de:Muse (Beziehung) be added here. It would be even better for it to be its own article (e.g. Muse (relationship)), but I leave it to someone else to create such a stub and move the use of the {{Expand German}} template there. — 72.244.201.227 (talk) 00:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC).

And even 3 more years and there is basically no mention at all of the modern muse in this article.. people are often referred to as being someone's "muse" or the concept of it, and there is no discussion in the article at all about this.--114.205.84.126 (talk) 12:57, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Another nine years, and someone has at last translated/written Muse (source of inspiration). The wheels here grind slow but exceeding fine. A pointer to that article at the hatnote should be sufficient. Herostratus (talk) 03:32, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Classical Invocations of the muses

However beautiful their poetry, perhaps we should not include Shakespeare, Dante and Milton among the Classics? Surely there must be other surviving Greek authors who invoked the muses. Could we put the more "modern" examples in a subsequent subsection? cladist Oct 4 2006

Go for it! introduce the Renaissance/Baroque invocations with a brief note on how they differ from their classical models. --Wetman 13:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

What about Edmund Spenser's poem "The Teares of The Muses"? It seems relevant to this article. Kestrel7 21:47, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation II

Multiple disambiguation is not used on article pages, in wikipedia per the wikipedia disambiguation guidelines. This guideline states that where the user may be searching for something else, a link is provided. It is perfectly reasonable to provide a direct link to another article where there is one other use (as per the edit comment in Renesis13's edit - it provides an example where one other use for "ColdFusion" ).

However, the guidelines also clearly state that:-

"Where there are several articles to be disambiguated from each other, include a link to a separate disambiguation page."

The Muse (disambiguation) page has 19 separate articles for the term (although 4 are redlinks). Disambiguation pages are provided specifically to avoid multiple disambiguation in articles. Guinness 11:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

You are misinterpreting the guidelines. That the guidelines says to include a link to a separate disambiguation page does NOT mean that a secondary common article cannot (or should not) also be linked to. Why else would there be a template for it? Please read the guidelines more carefully, as well as the instructions for use of the "otheruses" templates (Template:Otheruses). -- Renesis (talk) 15:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I think we're going to disagree on the interpretation of the guidlines, although I'm a little surprised about the existence of a template. In any case since we are not going to agree between ourselves on this, I have asked for the guidelines to be clarified. I humbly suggest that you keep an eye on anything that goes on there, and add your input as you see fit. Regards, Guinness 21:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the band Muse reaches the level of common-ness for inclusion in the base-name article along with the dab, though, even though I agree that in some cases a secondary use could. -- JHunterJ 22:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

• Muse is the most popular band in the UK at the moment... it's blatantly obvious to me that they do warrant an inclusion in the base-name article. -DMurphy 19:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I should of read this before, but I added the link to the rock band Muse. They are a phenomenally popular band and lets face it, it's not hurting anybody to have the link there. GrahamGRA 00:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

They aren't phenomenally popular outside of the UK, and Wikipedia isn't UK-centered. Pink (singer) is more popular than Muse (at least on this side of the pond), but she doesn't get mentioned in the hatnote for Pink either. -- JHunterJ 00:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Then add her if you want. The UK is quite important for music bands. Muse have released over 7 million albums worldwide, not just in the UK. That makes them popular and that gives full rights to put them on the page as a shortcut. GrahamGRA 00:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC) Additional: Oh and it's worth mentioning, the article about disambiguation is a guideline, not an official wikipedia policy kthx. Additional Additional: The link to the Muse disambiguation page still exists. Users aren't blocked from the use.

I don't want, that's the point. I want to avoid hatnote bloat. -- JHunterJ 02:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

10th and 11th muse

Aren't those associated with film and television, respectivly?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  03:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation III

I have removed the section on the National Science Foundation MUSE project and all links to related web sites. It has nothing to do with muse in this context, and its entry has a link on the muse disambiguation page. PacificBoy 15:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

There appears to be vandalism one that page that states "Andrew is gay". I'm deleting now --

Weasel word banner bad

what is with this weasel word banner hegemony. "weasel word" is such a nancy way of complaining about the phrasing, put that banner somewhere else it's seriously detracting from the aesthetics of a wiki. ("weasel words"?!? too casual! sounds hokey! lends an undue air of amateurness to wikipedia! stupid!) and what's with the wiktatorship? i can't delete the banner myself. this banner is anti-wiki.

weasel words don't refer to using casual or simple language, they refer to words that indirectly push an opinion or position without doing so.72.89.142.185 (talk) 18:38, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

"indirectly push an opinion or position without doing so"

What is this intended to mean? It is a self-contradicting, hence meaningless, statement, essentially claiming that something does something without doing it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.114.111 (talk) 20:51, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Thelxinoe

The article at Thelxinoe (Moon) states that the moon is named for a muse, one of muses. A quick google of the name has revealed websites saying the same thing. I don't have a primary source so I can add her to the article, so I'm hoping someone else will do some investigating. T@nn 09:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Ajuk's move of Muse to Muse (Greek mythology)

I posted at User:Ajuk's Talkpage the following note:

Now that you have created the dozens of redirects for Muse links that intend Muse (Greek mythology), you might help rectify this disservice to the Wikipedia reader and the trouble caused for other Wikipedians by helping revise the double redirects that you have created. You will find them at Muse by selecting "What links here" in the left-hand table. This is part-and-parcel of a page title move. I have also posted this note at Talk:Muse (Greek mythology). Thank you. --Wetman 18:13, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I have made a move request to restore the primary meaning to the base name article -- JHunterJ 18:19, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) In case anyone thinks this is frivolous carping, there are more than 600 links to Muse, the vast majority of which need to link to Muse (Greek mythology). Anyone care to help? Any fans of Muse (band) out there reading this? silence. beat. beat. ...pin drops. --Wetman 18:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I've redirected Muse to Muse (Greek mythology), since that appears to be the primary usage. The move back to the base name will apparently take longer. -- JHunterJ 18:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Wait! I can manage to fix the relevant ones among the ca. 600 double redirects from Muse to Muse (Greek mythology), if I can have some help. Let's work out what to do here at this Talkpage. Hold off on further changes: Muse (Greek mythology) would strip away lots of popcruft, for one thing... --Wetman 21:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Redirect

Ok, I propose making this a redirect to Muse (disambiguation). --Kimon^talk 16:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I suppose I should have looked here first, but I went ahead and changed it to the disambiguation page. Too bold? Esrever 17:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyway to find out what is more commonly searched for the band or the greek thing? Maybe is should redirect to Selma Hayek? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ajuk (talk • contribs) 21:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Thank you for attempting to restore the pages. Cut-n-paste moves, however, lose the edit history for the affected articles. I will see if the attempt is enough to make the return "speedy" now WP:RM#Incomplete and contested proposals -- JHunterJ 21:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

OK but this redirect fixes the links for now right? Ajuk 22:04, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Very nearly -- having a "base name" article redirect to a "base name (identifier)" article is a bit backwards, but that's simply an administrative fix-up. Or it should have been, I thought. -- JHunterJ 22:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Comments moved from (now-deleted) Talk:Muse. --Stemonitis 06:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Sacred grove

Doesn't mouseion (museum in English) literally mean "sacred grove" (of the muses)? If so, this should be noted in the article. Badagnani (talk) 04:45, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Muse attributes

a muse i salso a inspiration; or a guiding spirit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.16.53.81 (talk) 02:12, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

a muse is further a strengthening; mind supporting unique and close felt friend and kindred soul--ElkeK 22:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElkeK (talk • contribs)

Translation of the Muses' names

Petition to remove the word 'the' from the front of all their names. In my understanding of ancient greek you'd never need an article before them (since they're names there as well ...) and the word gets in the way of sense in some cases. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.77.254 (talk) 21:37, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Muses in Modern Art

Please see the talk page item at Talk:Thalia#Percy_Jackson_.26_and_the_Olympians_--_.7B.7Bcleanup-section.7D.7D_tag_added for an article/topic idea either for a section on this page or a full page (list) on its own. Apparently I need to create an account to start a new page and right now I would rather not do that as I am not sure what my username is going to be yet. 66.102.199.176 (talk) 17:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions for inclusion in this List

Books

Percy Jackson & The Olympians

Movies & Plays

The Muse (film)
Xanadu (film)

Paintings & Sculpture

The Muses (oil painting by Maurice Denis)
The Nine Muses sculpted by Troy Pillow

Music

Muse (band)

66.102.199.176 (talk) 18:04, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Comics

Girl Genius includes a set of clockwork muses based on the legend.
WeepingAngel63 (talk) 04:50, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Pierides

I was looking up info about the Pierides and found this page. Most sources I've seen say that they were turned into magpies; Wikipedia's the only one I've found that also says jackdaws. I don't know anything about this subject, but someone who does might want to double-check it. It would also be nice to have a citation for the Pierides myth -- I know Ovid talked about them, but is that the source of the story mentioned here? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ranetz (talk • contribs) 19:27, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Link to Muse (band)

How come the direct link to Muse (band) at the top of the page was removed? CR4ZE (talk) 11:20, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

It's been replaced with a link to Muse (disambiguation). More appropriate as there are multiple articles/subjects with this name. Voceditenore (talk) 12:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Link to Facebook Photo Gallery of the Muses Depicted in Art

This is the Facebook page with the most extensive gallery of photos online:

• Facebook Gallery of the Muses Depicted in Art

Wikipedia's external links guidelines do not prohibit all links to Facebook, only those not contributing to a users' experience.

On Wikipedia, external links should be reliable sources. According to WP:EL, "links to social networking sites (such as Myspace and Facebook)" should not be on Wikipedia, "except for a link to an official page of the article's subject". What is difficult to understand about this? --Fama Clamosa (talk) 19:50, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

The link is to a Facebook photo gallery -- the most extensive I have found on the net. Wikipedia's users would benefit from a direct link to it. Wikipedia's relationship to resources on Facebook will evolve. The images take advantage of Facebook's recent implementation of high-res photo galleries...this is a valuable resource to persons interested in the representation of the Muses in art. Why is it such a singular issue to you?? Just let the link remain...it could very well be that you are the only person objecting to it. This is something we will not know, however, if you so obsessively remove it.

The problem is that it is not reliable. How do we know that what is in that link is relevant to this article and will remain so? In addition these sort of Facebook pages come and go all the time. The images may also be in breach of copyright, and so we would discourage linking to it. Ultimately it boils down to there being consensus here that wikipedia shouldn't link to Facebook except in particular circumstances, which this is not. Quantpole (talk) 22:26, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok let's hold off on the link to this Facebook gallery until we are all more familiar with the resources on Facebook. In the meantime can you monitor this page? I would like to develop it and those for the other muses more thoroughly but apparently Fama Clamosa has issues. For example the 'See also' section should be expanded to include links to similar archetypes in other religions. It is very uncommon for a page on a subject as important as the Muses not to have any 'See also' links whatsoever. I think Fama Clamosa must be taking this disagreement personally. Thanks in advance.FriendlyHelper (talk) 01:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

How many muses? One or more?

The article title is 'Muse', singular. Most of the content is about 'Muses', plural. Please, please, /please/ can we have some literate editors and some sort of linguistic quality control in this would-be encyclopaedia?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.114.111 (talk) 20:55, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

This would've been funnier if you'd invented a user name. Cynwolfe (talk) 21:26, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

For my own information, does anyone know of an ancient variation (nothing recent please) of a myth in which one of the nine was somehow different or separate from the other eight?--DStanB (talk) 19:12, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

In Metamorphoses by Ovid (hopefully ancient enough), Calliope speaks for the rest of the muses as the most talented among them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GoldCoastPrior (talk • contribs) 01:22, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Function in Literature

"Seven classic examples are:" Anyone else missing the monumental invocation of the Muses (115 vv.!) that constitutes the proem of Hesiod's Theogony? --Heunir (talk) 00:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

"Seven Classic examples"

People keep adding classic examples but not changing the numeric value of that sentence. I changed it to "For example:" To allow for indefinite playfuntime adding of examples. Thanks for the Hesiod note, didn't remember that one. CircularReason (talk) 22:17, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Tenth Muse

I deleted a large section on the "tenth muse." This was listed as a "somewhat conventional compliment paid to female poets." There was mention that Plato called Sappho the tenth muse (apparently in the Palatine Anthology), but looking at the text, she's at best listed as "equal" to the Muses, and not a "tenth Muse." Attribution to Plato is also uncertain. The remaining "tenth muse" citations are a combination of famous female poets and other abstract concepts that are not covered by the nine muses (e.g., "energy" or "film"). All in all, this is pretty incoherent. Perhaps a good comparison is this article that calls the actress Shilpa Shetty a "goddess." Wikipedia would obviously not include her as a potential "goddess" among the Hindu deities. The deleted section is below. --GoldCoastPrior (talk) 19:47, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

The archaic poet Sappho of Lesbos was given the compliment of being called "the tenth Muse" by Plato. The phrase has become a somewhat conventional compliment paid to female poets since. In Callimachus' "Aetia", the poet refers to Queen Berenike, wife of Ptolemy II, as a "Tenth Muse", dedicating both the "Coma Berenikes" and the "Victoria Berenikes" in Books III–IV. French critics have acclaimed a series of dixième Muses who were noted in Benet's Reader's Encyclopedia (1948): Marie Lejars de Gournay (1566–1645), Antoinette Deshoulières (1633–1694), Madeleine de Scudéry (1607–1701), and Delphine Gay (1804–1855).

Anne Bradstreet, a Puritan poet of New England, was honored with this title after the publication of her poems in London in 1650, in a volume titled by the publisher as The Tenth Muse Lately Sprung Up in America. This was also the first volume of American poetry ever published.

Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, a Mexican poet, is well known in the Spanish literary world as the tenth Muse.

Gabriele D'Annunzio's 1920 Constitution for the Free State of Fiume was based on the nine Muses and invoked Energeia (energy) as "the tenth Muse".

In 1924, Karol Irzykowski published a monograph on cinematography entitled "The Tenth Muse" ("Dziesiąta muza"). Analyzing silent film, he pronounced his definition of cinema: "It is the visibility of man's interaction with reality".

In The Tenth Muse: A historical study of the opera libretto Patrick J. Smith implicitly suggests that the libretto be considered as the tenth muse. The claim, if made explicit, is that the relation of word and music as constituted by the libretto is not only of significant import, but that the critical appreciation of that relation constitutes a crucial element in the understanding of opera.

— Previous version of the article

References

TheMuse and The Muse

The usage of TheMuse and The Muse is under discussion, see Talk:The Daily Muse -- 65.94.168.229 (talk) 05:29, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Questions

1. "The earliest known records of the Nine Muses are from Boeotia, the homeland of Hesiod." What would be the records?

"Some ancient authorities thought that the Nine Muses were of Thracian origin." What is the ancient source?

"In Delphi they were whorshipped as Nḗtē, Mésē, and Hýpatē." What's the source?

"Alternatively, later they were called Kēphisṓ, Apollōnís, and Borysthenís, which names characterize them as daughters of Apollo." What's the source?

"In a later tradition, a set of four Muses were recognized: Thelxinóē, Aoidḗ Archē, and Melétē, said to be daughters of Zeus and Plusia or of Uranus." What is the tradition?

2. The article mentions Pierus. The link behind that name points to a page with two possibilites. Which one of the two applies?

3. "Some Greek writers give the names of the nine Muses as Kallichore, Helike, Eunike, Thelxinoë, Terpsichore, Euterpe, Eukelade, Dia, and Enope." Who are these Greek writers?

4. "Others included Science, Geography, Mathematics, Philosophy, and especially Art, Drama, and inspiration." Why should all the words be capitalized? Why should the last word in the set not be capitalized?

ICE77 (talk) 08:03, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Attempt to move the primary for Muse to the disamb page

There is a requested move to place the word Muse at the disamb page instead of this one. This RM was opened on December 16, 2020. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:18, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Muse (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:32, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Muse (band) in hatnote

Should Muse (band), given 1) its pageviews (consistenly more than Muses) and 2) the likelihood that someone looking for the band ends up here through the Muse redirect (very likely), not be given a specific mention in the hatnote? i.e. "Muse" redirects here. For the band, see Muse (band). For other uses, see Muse (disambiguation). This seems to be common practice in this type of situation, and it would certainly save a lot of readers a click. It would not make the hatnote overly long and I see no other possible disadvantage to it. Lennart97 (talk) 22:40, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I've made the change that I proposed above. If you oppose it, feel free to revert and discuss. Lennart97 (talk) 14:02, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorting order of the nine muses

Is there a preferred order of the names? I noticed that it is not consistent in different languages and sources. If the order has no logic or meaning, would it be an idea to sort the names alphabetically everywhere? Wiki-uk (talk) 07:10, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Muse (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:48, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 24 March 2024

-per WP:REDCAT:

#REDIRECT [[Muses]]

{{redr|
{{R from move}}
}}

//●→█2003 LN6█→●// 22:33, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Etymology

The etymology given (at 'Functions in society') is only one of many hypotheses given at Wiktionary Exarchus (talk) 17:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

From wiktionary:

Several hypotheses exist:

• From *Μονθια (*Monthia), from Proto-Indo-European *men- (“to think”) + *dʰeh₁-, whence μανθάνω (manthánō).
• From *Μοντια (*Montia), from Proto-Indo-European *men- (“to tower; mountain”), since all the most important cult-centres of the Muses were on mountains or hills, but Beekes finds this etymology impossible, as the root mont- 'mountain' from IE *men- is not found in Greek.
• From Proto-Indo-European *mō-, *mē- (“endeavour, will, temper”). Cognate with μῶμαι (mômai, “to seek after, meditate”), μαίομαι (maíomai, “to seek after”), μαιμάω (maimáō, “to be very eager”), Latin mōs, English mood, Proto-Slavic *sъmě̀ti.
• Beekes suggests the possibility of a borrowing from Pre-Greek.
• Swerdlow traces it back to Bohairic Coptic Egyptian mōw—apparently cognate with Hebrew משה, Moses—medieval sources mentioning that, like the prophet, “music was found by the water.”

Eugenia ioessa (talk) 22:05, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Thalia

I WP:Boldly removed "and a Charite" from the description of Thalia. In Hesiod, Thalia (Muse) is the daughter of Mnemosyne (Th. 77), Zeus's fifth wife (Th. 915–17), while Thalia (Grace) is the daughter of Eurynome (Th. 909), Zeus's third wife (Th. 907–911).

There are also the Nereid Thalia (Th. 245) daughter of Doris and Nereus (Th. 240–264). Eugenia ioessa (talk) 21:50, 26 June 2024 (UTC)