Talk:Music of China/Archive 1

Archive 1

Discussion

It would be nice to have more information in the section about Classical Chinese music; after all it covers a period of more than 3000 years. Does anyone have information on: - a list of the greatest classical works - list of composers or famous practitioners - major classical styles, by period or region - notation systems - music theory Unfortunately, I cannot contribute on any of these topics; if anyone can, please help. This is an important topic.

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—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.244.71 (talk) 02:37, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

The picture is too large, but it took me quite a while to figure out how to scan it so I'm proud of finally succeeding anyway... Why is it on the bottom, though? I cut-and-pasted the image format from Cronus because I wanted a caption like that, and the picture there is where it should be. Tuf-Kat 23:25, Jan 13, 2004 (UTC)

fixed (hopefully) --Jiang

Thanks! Tuf-Kat —Preceding undated comment added 02:42, 14 January 2004

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Doesn't anyone know anything about Chinese hip hop? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.4.54.139 (talk • contribs) 01:27, 6 September 2004

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Where should the fish-drum/pao pei, go? --Guthrie 15:17, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Under "instrumentation" would be fine. Tuf-Kat 22:09, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

heavy metal is too noisy here

I suggest a new page be opened about Chinese modern or contemporary music, as the heavy metal part seems much too big in comparison of the part dedicated to classical music. Besides, it's written without style conventions...) Mokarider 11:13, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Chinese ethnic minorities music and contemporary Chinese music ought to be broken off from here. Agreed. Mandel 00:12, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree that this article is very poorly balanced, but the solution is to use wikipedia:Summary style to offer only a brief overview of all the fields of Chinese music, classical and modern. Tuf-Kat 02:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

• The Tibetan music section needs to be cut down so it is roughly the same size as the other sections. Besides, most of what is written should be in the separate article anyways. --CharlieHuang 20:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Why does a section on "Punk Rock" discuss "nu-metal" and not punk at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.180.29.71 (talk) 05:18, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

A lot of it is ill-informed about the western music that inspired it too, for example many references to trends that emerged in the mid nineties being inspired by Linkin Park, despite them not even releasing a record until after 2000. 81.158.49.241 (talk) 14:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Qin players in Instrumental music, Ethnic Han music

Instrumental pieces played on an erhu or dizi are popular, and are often available outside of China, but qin, pipa and zheng music, which is more traditional, are more popular in China itself. The qin is perhaps the national instrument of China, and its virtuosos are stars. I think this is not really accurate, most people in China don't even know what a qin(guqin) is, let alone qin players. LDHan 12:45, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

• Agree. Highly speculative; in fact, not true at all. The qin is a revered instrument, you can claim that, but not a 'national instrument'. For that, it has to be recognised by 90% of the population, which it is hardly. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 19:45, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

• Reworded. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 15:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Origin of music for "Chinese motif"

I am desperately looking for the history of a particular short musical phrase that is used to represent "Chinese"-ness, or Asian culture in general. I've seen it referenced in cartoons, stand-up comedy, and in the popular song Kung Fu Fighting.

I've uploaded a short audio file of the musical phrase in question: Image:ChineseMotif1.ogg

What is the origin of this phrase? Who first composed it? How did it come to be the quintessential chinese-stereotypical music. Does it have any actual connection whatsoever to genuine Chinese music, or is it just a western invention? -Alecmconroy 01:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've been searching for the origin of this phrase for quite some time as well. D Boland (talk) 00:53, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Template from Chinese music stubs

{{cn-music-stub}}

We can use this for stubbing rather than the {{music-stub}} or the {{music-genre-stub}}. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 10:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I think {{china-music-stub}} would be better choice for stub name. Monni 12:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Jia ren qu

What type of song would that song from House of Flying Daggers, Jia Ren Qu, be classified as? --Michaelzheng 05:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:PRCNationalanthemmusic.png

Image:PRCNationalanthemmusic.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Any music to recommend?

I want to listen too chinese traditional music, i would like a woman to sing to. Do you have anything to recommend?as old as possible.hjg;lfj 'lial:Contributions/158.39.41.122|158.39.41.122]] (talk) 19:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

How about "My Dog Has Fleas"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.252.183.253 (talk) 22:14, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abing. Badagnani (talk) 03:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Qiu Xia He. Badagnani (talk) 04:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Do You guys have a Record Chart

Do you, if you have please tell me. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 20:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Help sought about an image

I was hoping someone working on this article might be able to help sort things out at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Guzheng_01.jpg. I'm not at all expert on East Asian instruments, I just happen to have taken the photo in question (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Guzheng_01.jpg). It is perfectly possible that the store that had the instrument had mislabeled it: they are mainly an accordion store. Quite possibly I have, following them, titled the photo incorrectly, and described the instrument inaccurately. (Cross posted to Talk:Guzheng.)- Jmabel | Talk 05:32, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Article up for deletion

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Chinese music ensembles in the United States, and comment if you wish. Badagnani (talk) 20:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Western classical music and its impact on Chinese music

Maybe something about Chinese music that is related to Western classical music would be appropriate? For example, Butterfly Lovers' Violin Concerto and Yellow River Piano Concerto are both very famous and notable works in both Western and Chinese music circles. So far, there is no mention of even the word "classical" in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Getmoreatp (talk • contribs) 03:29, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Dragon dance

There must be given more emphasis in the section with Dragon dance. Its a long tradition at Music in china. --Basstonic (talk) 23:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

It's specifically a dance, not music (the musical is incidental), and should be deleted from this page. Hzh (talk) 19:38, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism

The top part of the page appeared to be vandalized by IP 69.114.161.174 in a series of edits. Unfortunately because of intervening edits my revision had to be done manually. If some wants to go over what's there currently to see if makes sense or not that would be just lovely Sxoa (talk) 18:25, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Dates are not consistent

Just a quick perusal of this article and I have come across two dating conventions BCE without corresponding CE and BC/AD Would like to see this fixed, but there seems to be some proprietariness to the topic as it is.... Bandcoach (talk) 21:44, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Harmony and Counterpoint: Ritual Music in Chinese Context  By Bell Yung, Evelyn S. Rawski

http://books.google.com/books?id=gXGcQQFxpMEC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 21:00, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Problem with article

There seems to be a problem with definition here. Chinese music refers to the music of the Chinese people, which may or may not be those music found in mainland China, also would the music of various minorities be classified as Chinese? The article also includes Western classical music which is definitely not Chinese music. Changing the title to "Music in China" would solve part of the problem, but it is still problematic because Chinese music would include music produced by Chinese people outside of mainland China. I'm thinking perhaps splitting into two ("Chinese music" and "Music in China"), but splitting would seem a bit excessive given that the content would overlap considerably. Deleting the Western classical music section would solve a lot of the issues I think, but I have no idea what the best solution is, so I would be interested in suggestions. Hzh (talk) 16:03, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the definition of Chinese music in this article is rather broad. It allows us to class something as Chiese music if there is any form of connection to their the country or the ethnicity. If Lang Lang played Gershwin's Rhapsody In Blue at the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Concert at Buckingham Palace last year did that count as Chinese music? If I, a Scottish man, play Flower of Scotland on my guitar while living in Beijing, does that count as Chinese music? How about Vanessa-Mae, she is British but her mother is Chinese making her ethnically half Chinese. Does Vanessa's music count as Chinese music? I think most would agree that these examples do not count. Though to the contrary, if the BBC proms played Butterfly Lovers' Violin Concerto I think most would class it as Chinese music.

Having several articles with tighter defined scopes would solve these problems. I'd suggest at least an article called Music in China which would largely be the same as this current article. Another on Traditional Chinese music which this article currently treats quite lightly, naming few actual works. The something on Modern Chinese music to cover the latest trends. Rincewind42 (talk) 15:58, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

There are a few areas which need to be resolve first I think. For example would Tibetan or Uighur music be classified as Chinese music? I think not, but others might disagree, although music of the ethnic minorities can easily fit under Music of China. How would we deal with pop music? It certainly is part of Chinese music, perhaps part of Music of China if we consider China to be Greater China - it started in Shanghai in the 1920s but disappeared from mainland China after 1949; afterwards it was entirely a product of Taiwan, Hong Kong, and South East Asian Chinese communities, returning to mainland China only in the 1980s and being produced in mainland China some time later.

Traditional Chinese music is already dealt with in the page on Guoyue, although that is also a problematic area because of various interpretations of what guoyue is (you can read it in the article), and also what might be considered traditional Chinese music - the issue of ethnic minorities, and traditional music often refers to the kind of music that was reinvented less than 100 years ago.

If we are to have multiple pages, then we would need to consider what pages there should be and what should go into each page because there may be considerable overlap. Personally I think a page on Chinese music in general is useful as an umbrella page with general information and under which all the other pages might be linked to. Hzh (talk) 18:12, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

The issue of Tibetan, Uighur need not be dealt with here. There is an established precedent for all other articles relating to China. If you want to debate that, take it up on the page at China or at the project page WP:China. In short, China as used just now on Wikipedia, means P.R.China. It includes Tibet, Hong Kong and Macua but usually articles only make passing reference to Taiwan. If you start arguing against including Tibetan music you would also have to exclude Manchu, Mongolian and ever other ethnic group and then we should really call the article Music of the Han. When we use the word China we include all the ethnic groups currently within China.

There is no problem having considerable overlap or a large number of pages. Look at other countries pages such as Music of the which also has Original Pilipino Music as well as a bunch of sub-articles like Filipino folk, Manila Sound, Pinoy hip hop, Pinoy reggae, Pinoy rock (BisRock), Pinoy pop. Then Japan has Music of Japan, Traditional Japanese music and another 30 or so articles covering each category or style of Japanese music.

I notice that music articles consistently use the title phrase Music of X as do other cultural articles such as Architecture of the United States and Cinema of Germany.

Ergo I would propose that this article, Chinese music be renamed Music of China and minor changes to the text made as needed. Additional pages to cover other aspects in more detail can be made as and when people have time and inclination to write them. Rincewind42 (talk) 15:49, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

There's a bit of misunderstanding there. I was saying that Tibetan and Uighur music would not fit under Chinese music (although other people might argue otherwise), but would under Music of China. The question is whether Music of China would include music of overseas Chinese people, more specifically Taiwan and South East Asian Chinese. My suggestion is therefore to keep both Chinese music and Music of China if we don't mind the overlap (there's already a page for Music of China which is redirected to Chinese music), just need to move the content to Music of China, then partially rewrite Chinese music. The history section can be expanded quite a bit, so we just need to decide whether it should go. Hzh (talk) 18:57, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Music of China definitely excludes overseas Chinese diaspora from the article. China is geo-political entity not an ethnicity. If you want to create an article Chinese music talking about music that is ethnically Chinese then go ahead. However, if you include the diaspora of Chinese people around the world then the article could get rather large. I think you will need to make it clear in the introduction that it is about the ethnicity's music not the nation's music. To that end, might I suggest naming it Music of Chinese people. This will prevent mission creep and also keeps the title in the passive rather than active voice in keeping with all the other Music of... articles. Rincewind42 (talk) 07:30, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

The reason we need something like Chinese music is because some Chinese music genres like Chinese pop music is largely international - centres of production are Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Beijing and Shanghai, and singers are from Chinese communities all over the world, including Malaysia, Canada, USA. In the field of traditional music, some of the newer compositions are not from mainland China. I think Chinese music is more succinct than Music of Chinese people, therefore better, but I'm ok with both. Hzh (talk) 11:33, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Maybe the reason nobody can come up with examples or a definition of Chinese music per se here is b/c the Chinese haven't made music anyone wants to listen to. It all sounds alike, it's boring and lacks any imagination. There have never been any Chinese musicians/singers/songwriters that even begin to compare with those in the West. Name one. Therein lies the problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.252.183.253 (talk) 21:08, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

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Edit warring on Taiwan section

Please stop the edit warring and discuss this in the talk page, and give your reason for adding/removing the edits. Hzh (talk) 00:41, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

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MAPEH

History music in china 49.148.153.27 (talk) 06:04, 10 January 2023 (UTC)