Talk:Music of the United Kingdom (1980s)

Grindcore

Why isn't Grindcore mentioned in this article?. MyTemple 11:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Major sort out needed

Being a big fan of 1980s music, I'm reading this article in horror. This does in no way sum up the music of the decade. Right at the top of the article there's a piece on Indian music - now apart from one hit I can think of (1982's Ever So Lonely), it wasn't at all notable. There are big mentions for the Madchester scene - which was far more 1990 than 1980s, club DJs who didn't really rise to prominence till the 1990s. Siouxsie and the Banshees and LFO are mentioned in the opening paragraph - they certainly weren't major acts of the decade (the latter only ever scoring one top 20 hit - in the 90s). On top of this - New Romantisism is completely ignored - easily the biggest genre of the decade, and no mention of the dominance of many groups in America (frequently labelled as the second British invasion). Not once does this article mention Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, Stock Aitken Waterman, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Shakin' Stevens, The Police, Bucks Fizz, Madness... Ask anyone about 80s music and these would be the names that would spring to mind. I'd attempt a clean up but it would involve deleting most of it, which I know would not go down well.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 18:08, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

All valid points. I am working on a clean-up, taking account of this and the tags on the article. This will add missing genres and trends (a lot of these), supply citations. It will delete anything that cannot be substantiated. If anyone sees any other problems now is the time to post below, so that solutions can be incorporated.--Sabrebd (talk) 21:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Just spotted this again. Massively improved. Very good work Sabrebd, much more readable as well.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 09:19, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The order of the genres

There is no reason to put the less popular British music genres at the top. We have to present the music genres of each decade according to their popularity worldwide (In the same way we have done here for example). It makes absolutely no sense to put the more obscure genres at the top (For example - Sabrebd put the "2 Tone and Reggae" section at the top of the Music of the United Kingdom (1980s) article. Please explain to us why we should order it differently. TheCuriousGnome (talk) 17:45, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Rather than reply five times I have put one answer here.--SabreBD (talk) 00:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

COPIED FROM Talk:Music of the United Kingdom (1950s and 60s)#The order of the genres

I have another suggestion that might help sort this out. The problem with synth pop and a lot of new wave is that it straddles the pop and rock cultures. We could legitimately take the synth rock section from British rock, offering synth rock and synth pop as main article connections. Then it could go in the top of the rock section and allowing it to flow a lot better. Then it doesnt matter if pop goes after rock. That explanation looks a lot more complex on the page so I hope that made sense.--SabreBD (talk) 08:14, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Drum and Bass decade

Reading the Drum and bass and related articles, it seems to have taken off in the 90s. Does it belong in Music of the United Kingdom (1990s)?--SabreBD (talk) 16:23, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Since there were no objections I move this. I have left the electronic music section heading because this section should probably be expanded and divided.--SabreBD (talk) 17:06, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Reorganization

The reorganization was done because several sections of the article were organized and the prose reflected the American definition of New Wave Music. This is a article about British phenomenon after all. New Romantic and Synthpop genres are often described as subgenres of New Wave in the U.S. while in the U.K. they are separate genres that came out of new wave. So I moved the New Wave section down to the bottom and renamed it Second British Invasion which is where the prose was lifted from anyway. Reworded in several other locations to reflect UK definitions and also took things out in a couple of places that I felt are best left to main articles. Probably do need to add back a brief new wave section to account for early 80's acts such as the Police and Heaven 17 I see described in UK publications as New Wave. A "New Pop" section and article is also probably needed as the histories I have read of the period have discussed it. Edkollin (talk) 23:13, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

That's logical. I have a copy of Reynolds Rip it Up... I will see if I can put something together on new pop from there.--SabreBD (talk) 07:14, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

To Do

Music Video and Kate Bush. Right now no good section for Kate Bush (what else is new?) Edkollin (talk) 09:14, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

The problem is that she defies classification. But we need to find a place for her somewhere. Perhaps the most significant British female solo artists of her generation.--SabreBD (talk) 09:16, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

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In regards to Sophisti-pop, Synthpop and New Wave

To what extent should Americans make generalisations about the British music scene and come up with their own definitions?

In regards to Sophisti-pop...

Obviously there are some factors that link the artists in this genre but its obvious the idea of Sophisti-pop falls apart when other publications get involved and don't know whether its about jazz-pop, soul-pop or some kind studio sophistication...such as Classic Pop's Oliver Hurley.

Hurley should know better as he is based in Bristol, doesn't look like a teenager who has just found a genre online and being a freelance journalist who has had commissions from The Guardian, Loaded [so he cannot be that young] and The Face in the past, should know his stuff. However, he starts off his article on Sophisti-pop stating "By mixing elements of jazz, r&b and soul, a new wave of artist emerged during the mid-80s, bringing with them a certain cultured elegance to the charts. Here is our pick of the sophisti-pops" and ends by putting ABC's The Lexicon Of Love from 1982 at number one.

"This is one of the definitive albums of the 80s and among the finest British debuts ever. Sure, it’s over-the-top – Martin Fry’s vocals wouldn’t be out of place in musical theatre – but you can’t argue with the likes of The Look Of Love and Poison Arrow, while Date Stamp invents Frankie Goes To Hollywood. But the highlight is All Of My Heart, a perfect realisation of what sophisticated pop can achieve".

Even on wikipedia, The Lexicon Of Love is listed as a sophisti-pop album (you can guess where the reference came from!) but also on here it states that

"Sophisti-pop is a subgenre of pop music. The term has been applied retrospectively to music that emerged during the mid-1980s in the UK which incorporated elements of jazz, soul, and pop. Music so classified often made extensive use of electronic keyboards, synthesizers and polished arrangements, particularly horn sections.

Stylus Magazine suggested that acts were influenced by the work of Roxy Music and Bryan Ferry's mid-1980s albums, Bête Noire and Boys and Girls.[5] According to AllMusic, major artists included Simply Red, Sade, The Style Council, Basia, Swing Out Sister, Prefab Sprout and the early work of Everything but the Girl"

...this obviously contradicts what the American term 'sophisti-pop' has been agreed upon by Alfred Soto and Thomas Inskeep, a genre, that seems to be made up in 2007, a genre that some people are being too overprotective of and taking a one-sided view. So who should we believe? Alfred Soto and Thomas Inskeep or Oliver Hurley (who to give him credit, may have a point when he says that The Lexicon Of Love could be one of the best albums of the 1980s...though sophisti-pop?).

We don't know if Soto and Inskeep have read through countless back issues of Q, Vox, Smash Hits, Number One, Big, Blitz, The Face, Record Mirror, Music Week, Cut et al. from the 1980s or have just came of age reading Rolling Stone, Relix, Paste and are basing their knowledge from seeing these acts on MTV America, looking at their chart positions in Billboard and hearing them on the AT40 chart show.

We know its unlikely that Dominic Sandbrook will devote much time on the issue (even though he devoted time to The Face on last Tuesday's programme and will be talking about yuppies in episode three, called "World in Motion" on BBC Four on 8th December 2020), but it should have been someone like Sandbrook (or at least Hepworth & Ellen) who should have been the originator of this...

We don't know if Soto and Inskeep are just going through their CD collection (a collection which doesn't probably include a lot of, ahem, Stock-Aitken-Waterman (sic) or Phil Collins) but it does strike me that when dealing with Sophisticated Pop and the British music scene in the 1980s there are some obvious omissions. Acts that always seem to crop up online when dealing with this 'genre' include The Blue Nile, David Sylvian/Rain Tree Crow and a lot of the Kitchenware bands (though Prefab Sprout gets a passing mention in 'Debonair Lullabies').

I suppose you could argue that if its Soto and Inskeep's own 'personal thing' maybe its right to exclude them but if its a guide to sophisticated 80s pop, then maybe they haven't got the right records in their collection. To give them credit they do mention Maggie Thatcher (or at least 'Thatcherite') a few times, but one of those mentions is in a list of names with Caspar Weinberger, a name probably unknown to most British kids reading Smash Hits in the 1980s, a character whose Spitting Image puppet most people probably couldn't point to in a Buzzcocks line-up and a political figure probably unknown to a lot of people in the UK who haven't watched CNN's The Eighties on Sky. There is no mention of Top of the Pops, The ITV Chart Show, BBC Radio 1 or Saturday morning children's TV shows like Saturday Superstore (no Matt Bianco mention either), all references you might expect when dealing with mainstream 80s British pop...because being American they didn't experience the British 80s pop scene at first hand, they were not living full time as a pop music fan/teenager/child in 1980s Britain (though being American they might refer to this country as England/Scotland/Wales), getting all their information second-hand, making up a music genre in the mid 2000s as a sequel to Yacht Rock, without much of the same humour, care or attention to detail.

The same kind of arguments are found when dealing with Synthpop and New Wave...they need to have their own British Synthpop and British New Wave articles — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.173.247 (talk) 15:42, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

References