Talk:Númenor/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 11:37, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much for taking this on. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments round 1

Happy to discuss or be challenged on any of my comments.

• Lead: Is there a source for the pronunciation as "/ˈnuːmɛnɔːr/"?

Removed, I suspect it's editorial, but also quite unnecessary.

• Lead: Elenna-nórë is in the lead but not mentioned again. Might be worth adding to the article if there is more that can be said.

• Lead: The redirect from fictional place to Lists of fictional locations isn't all that helpful. Fantasy world could perhaps be one option from the redirected page.

Removed.

• Lead: Says that Númenor is in the "Sundering Seas" whereas infobox has "The Great Sea" with a link. Consider whether these should be made consistent.

Fixed.

• Lead: "Commentators have noted, too, that it echoes" - "too" could probably be omitted here. Consider replacing "it" with what the "it" refers to - presumably something along the lines of "the devastation of Númenor."

Done.

• Infobox: "Lifespan" doesn't seem like quite the right term. I suppose I'm thinking of something clunkier like "Fictional historical era" but I'm happy for "lifespan" to be retained.

Fixed.

• Infobox: If the infobox refers to an island rather than an island civilisation, then I think Elros Tar-Minyatur should be omitted here as he did not found the island itself. Elros Tar-Minyatur is in the infobox, but appears in the article only as Elros. Consider adding the "Tar-Minyatur" to the first occurrence.

You're right. "Island kingdom" it is.

Physical Geography

• Physical geography: "With clean air, King Tar-Meneldur built his tall tower here to watch the stars." I think minor rewording, unless the tall tower was built of clean air.

Fixed.

• If there is anything in Tolkein that says anything else about Tar-Meneldur, I think it would be good to add that here for a bit of context.

Glossed.

• "A tall tower was constructed there by Elros,"; "days of Tar-Aldarion"; Ar-Pharazôn In the same vein as the point above, add a little context if possible. (There is already more about Elros in the later section Land of Gift and about Ar-Pharazôn under Sauron)

Glossed all three of 'em.

• "important in Númenórean policies" - should that be in "politics"? ("Policies" could be right.)

Clarified.

• "As the Shadow fell over.." as this is the first reference, consider linking to the later part of the article or adding a brief note here.

Done. I'd not normally do this but I take your point.

• I would normally just change this sort of thing, but best to check here - is "shipts" a typo?

Fixed.

Culture

• Link Beleriand at the first mention. (It's linked later.)

Done.

• Consider linking Edain to Man (Middle-earth)

Done.

• Link Adûnaic at the first mention.

Done.

• Consider linking Quenya

Done.

• Consider briefly explaining what oiolairë was (or linking to List of fictional plants which has a description). The reference to "bough of" does already indicate that it was a type of plant.

Done.

Fictional History

• Land of gifts: "wonderful plants" - do we know what was wonderful about them?

Rm adjective.

Comments Part 2

• Sea kings "forbidden to sail west out of sight" - if this is a direct quote, probably deserves a page reference.

Reworded.

• "tantalizingly not far west" - you'll know better than I do whether "tantalizingly" fits here; I'd suggest a minor reword to something like "tantalizingly close to the west of" as I think it reads better without a "not" there. This is another one I'm happy to let stay as it is if you prefer the current wording.

Done.

• Atlantis: as I don't have access to the Hale source, I'm assuming good faith with respect to it supporting all of the first paragraph.

Noted. There is a direct quote in the Hale citation.

• Atlantis: "the only drowned island in earlier literature" - I'm had a go at looking at a machine-translated version of the Delattre source, and didn't find this part (" the only") there. I think it is better to caveat this with something like "in surviving" literature too, as lots of early literature is lost. Also, if "earlier" can be qualified - I think it basically means ancient here, rather than just "before Tolkien".

Done.

• Fall: I've assumed good faith with respect to the summary of Shippey (2005).

Noted.

• Fall: "Tolkien, a devout Roman Catholic," will need a separate citation if not verified in Letters #131.

Added.

Thanks for the speedy responses earlier Chiswick Chap. I've not done the image and copyvio checks yet, but certainly not found any big issues so far. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:44, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:50, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Chiswick Chap thanks for all your work on the article for and your responses to my comments. I'm happy to pass the article for GA. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:15, 25 April 2020 (UTC)