Talk:NCIS: Hawaiʻi

Article title

This article should be either "Talk:NCIS: Hawaiʻi" (with ʻOkina) or "Talk:NCIS: Hawaii" (without). The current title with an apostrophe is just wrong. GA-RT-22 (talk) 02:33, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

@GA-RT-22: Done. TheDoctorWho (talk) 03:48, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Such quick service! Thanks. GA-RT-22 (talk) 03:52, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

@TheDoctorWho: I'm quite sure that the title should not contain a "curly" apostrophe in the title, as per MOS:CURLY. I advise that this be moved to NCIS: Hawai'i, either with a WP:RM/TR or just directly without one. At the least, there needs to be a discussion about this. In fact, based on Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Hawaii-related articles, I'm wondering if this should just be moved to NCIS: Hawaii (e.g. Hawaii), as per WP:CONSISTENCY. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:11, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

@IJBall: before I get too deep into this do ʻokina's apply to MOS:CURLY? Just from a quick glance over that it looks like it only applies to quotation marks themselves while an ʻokina is considered a punctuation mark consonant in the Hawaiian language. If in fact it does apply then wouldn't this issue apply to a larger scope since ʻokina actually uses one in the article title as well? TheDoctorWho (talk) 03:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

The article for "Hawai'i" is at Hawaii. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Hawaii-related articles contains other examples like that (e.g. the article is Kau, Hawaii, not the version with diacritics). Based on that, it looks to me like they keep Hawaiian diacritics out of article titles... I don't know whereelse to ask about this – I don't think WT:TV or even WT:NCTV would have any answers. One possible solution is just to open a WP:RM discussion about moving the article to NCIS: Hawaii and see if there's any support or pushback on the proposal. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:48, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

There's definitely plenty of other articles which use ʻokina's in their title (ʻIolani Palace, ʻEwa Beach, Hawaii, ʻIolani School, ʻIʻiwi) so it's just a question of whether Hawaii should contain one here. The only thing that I say is different here as opposed to say your example of Kau, Hawaii, is that it refers to a general location while this refers to a specific title of a work. The specific part about article titles in MOS:HAWAII says Whenever possible, the most common name should be used with the regional spelling and orthography preferred for titles and consistently used when referring to the subject in the body of the article. and most reliable primary and second have used Hawaiʻi over Hawaii since the news of the rename came. This doesn't apply specifically to the Hawaiian language but I came across a similar example in Spanish where Mexico is used for the article title of the location but México en la Piel is used for a specific title of the work. TheDoctorWho (talk) 04:10, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

@IJBall: (not sure if this page is on your watchlist so pinging just in case) TheDoctorWho (talk) 04:17, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

(No, this one is not on my watchlist, and isn't likely to be...) In general, I think article titles should not contain "special" characters, like a curly apostrophe, so I strongly think this article should be at NCIS: Hawai'i or NCIS: Hawaii over the current title. Personally, I would vote for the latter on the basis of WP:CONSISTENCY with the parent article for Hawaii, but I'd prefer either over the current title... I doubt I will open a WP:RM on this myself. But if someone else does, I'd appreciate a ping or a notice, because I would like to follow that move discussion – for a simple TV show, I really do not think we should be using special characters like "‘" in the article title. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:22, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Note: To be clear, I'm not saying that the special character (ʻokina) shouldn't be used in the article itself. What I'm saying is that it shouldn't be used in the article's title. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:38, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

@IJBall: Just under everything I've read so far I'm not seeing a reason to remove it. I'll poke around MOS a bit more and see if I find anything more substantial. If an RM ever opens I'll definitely ping you. Thanks, TheDoctorWho (talk) 04:42, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

WP:CONSISTENCY with the parent Hawaii article (and the fact that there are definitely sources that refer to the show as just "NCIS: Hawaii" in either the article title, or in the article itself) are reasons enough. And, I appreciate the notice if somebody does open an WP:RM. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:46, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Curly apostrophe

Today I saw a library copy of a DVD set where the title on the cover and each disc read “NCIS: Hawai’i” (boldface added), with a curly apostrophe rather than an ʻokina. I have no idea how common this error was in official use; might it be noteworthy enough to bring up? —96.8.24.95 (talk) 22:10, 5 June 2023 (UTC)