Talk:Namsadang

LGBT?

How is this article related to LGBT issues?

Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:15, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

^{It is copied and pasted from talk--Caspian blue (talk) 15:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)} I want to hear your reasoning for the revert although I put back the legitimate WikiProject. Have you heard of the Korean itinerant "male" troupe before? I guess not. The article is still at beginning status to be expanded with much missing contents, so you thought that what on earth this article is tagged with the project banner. However, I would recommend to read the article of The King and the Clown, and you would know what content the article in question would have in the future. Regards. --Caspian blue (talk) 02:08, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Caspian blue!

I removed the project banner because the article says absolutely nothing about sexuality. Can you give me a nutshell answer? Are the troupes made up of only gay men? Do they only perform for lesbians? Help me (and other readers of the article) to understand why it should be considered LGBT. Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:13, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Err.. they did not perform for lesbians (I consider it as a joke). Well, they used to be consisted of only men, not all of them being gay men, but they solved their "desire" within their troupe. Young apprentices were trained to play female characters under a guide by older performers. It was like a boy and old man pair in ancient Greece. They sometimes sold themselves to villagers or higher officers. --Caspian blue (talk) 02:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that was a joke :)

I don't really see how the men sometimes having sex with each other qualifies as LGBT? That's kind of like saying Prison should be in the LGBT project. If you feel strongly that it belongs in the project, would you bring it up to WT:LGBT? Because I feel strongly that it doesn't belong.

Hmmm. your comparison is not appropriate. Not sometimes also. Like Farewell My Concubine (film) which has the project banner, the subject has been a gay study in South Korea. So I strongly feel that the banner should be attached to there. --Caspian blue (talk) 02:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Farewell My Concubine is a film about a gay couple, and both of them identify themselves as gay. I don't know if they have sex in the film or not. Prison is about a group of men that sometimes (but not always) have sex with each other, but may or may not be gay. As far as I can tell - and tell me if I'm wrong - the Namsadang troupe is a group of men that sometimes (but not always) have sex with each other, and may or may not be gay. Please note - I sense that you're not a native English speaker, and I would like to point out to you that to men who have sex together may or may not be gay, which refers to a self-identification and a sub-culture. Now, are the members of a Namsadang troupe gay? Or do they just sometimes have sex together? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:38, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, the movie characters were not "gay" at the first time. Like Leslie Cheung selling himself to higher officers, namsadang also did the same things to survive. They had not accepted female performers until 20th century and could not because Korea was a very conservative and secluded Confucian state. The pairs were like husbands and wives, and "pretty" and "feminine" apprentices were popular and coveted among old performers. --Caspian blue (talk) 02:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

If that's true, there needs to be referenced information in the article. If that's added to the article, then the project banner can go on there - until then, it's just confusing. And really, unless the group is somehow like the Mattaccino (see the section on the Mattachine Society), the troupe itself doesn't seem to be LGBT. But please - add the referenced information so that others can join in on the discussion. At the moment, the article says absolutely nothing on the subject, which is why I removed the banner. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:52, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Most sources are written in Korean, but these book links would get you take a glimpse of the future content.[1][2]--Caspian blue (talk) 02:57, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

But that's just my point - you keep referring to future content - until the content is there, the banner is confusing. Can't you take the banner off until you've worked the content into the article? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:00, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Why? Sooner or later, I would add that info, and the banner could lead LGBT project members would also implement the article. Btw, if you're okay, can I copy and paste our discussion to the article talk page? I think I might get the same question from people.--Caspian blue (talk) 03:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I've asked for opinions from other members of WP:LGBT. I'm a) not convinced the acting troupes are LGBT, b) not happy putting the project banner on an article based on "future content", and c) don't believe you and I can reach any sort of consensus on the matter. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

If you take your time just 3 minute to look into the links that I gave you, your doubt will be gone.--Caspian blue (talk) 03:15, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

If you don't mind, can I copy and paste our discussion to the talk page of Namsadang? (questioning this second time)--Caspian blue (talk) 14:42, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:36, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

^{It is copied and pasted from talk[3]--Caspian blue (talk) 15:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)}

The links Caspian provides make it appear that the LGBT tag is relevant. However, I agree with Satyr that there must be content in the article to support it. I'll try to add a line or two so that there is something to demonstrate the link. That can then be expanded by Caspian or others. Aleta ^Sing 02:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

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