Talk:Nancy Kassebaum

Move to Nancy Landon Kassebaum

This page should be moved to Nancy Landon Kassebaum; while in public life she was never known as Nancy Baker. Moderate2008 (talk • contribs) 22:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC

First husband?

Although Philip Kassebaum is mentioned in the info box, there is no mention of her first marriage in the main text. Who was he? Was he connected with politics? Is he still alive? Tsuguya (talk) 10:31, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I would like to add:

Why does the article state: "She was the first woman ever elected to a full term in the Senate without her husband having previously served in Congress" when, in the very sentence before, it says her husband was a US Senator? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.228.193.32 (talk) 05:44, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 20:22, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Nancy Landon Kassebaum → Nancy Kassebaum – Per Wikipedia:Article titles, "Nancy Kassebaum" is the more widely used name, and is more CONCISE. There is no other notable person name "Nancy Kassebaum", so the inclusion of "Landon" is not needed to distinguish this person from any other person. Furthermore, since only a fraction of Wikipedia articles on contemporary married American women include both a married name and a maiden name, it is more consistent with general titling practices to avoid using both names unless the subject is substantially better known by both names. In this case (as indicated below), just about every metric indicates that this person is more widely searched for and more widely known as Nancy Kassebaum. Cheers! bd2412 T 20:47, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Here are some additional points of information relevant to this request:

• A Google search for "Nancy Kassebaum" excluding the term, "Landon" gets about 38,100 Google results, while "Nancy Landon Kassebaum" gets about 18,900, less than half as many. The same search on Google Books also yielded more hits for "Nancy Kassebaum" excluding the term, "Landon", including usage in official government documents such as this article in the Congressional Record. See also, e.g.:

  Robert E. Gribbin, In the Aftermath of Genocide: The U.S. Role in Rwanda (2005), p. 93:

  • Senator Nancy Kassebaum, who throughout her tenure in Congress had demonstrated active interest in Africa, and especially in humanitarian issues, was visiting the region.

  Nancy J. Hirschmann, ‎Ulrike Liebert, Women and Welfare: Theory and Practice in the United States and Europe (2001), p. 128:

  • A meeting took place between the House leadership, the Senate leadership, a couple of the key players Nancy Kassebaum and John Chafee were called into the meeting, and for over an hour the eighteen [other people in attendance] tried to convince John Chafee and Nancy Kassebaum to accept the block grant or some version of the block grant.

  Jane Alexander, Command Performance: An Actress in the Theatre of Politics (2000), p. 267:

  • Nancy Kassebaum was still eager to find a way to reauthorize the agency, and together in a motel room in Independence, Kansas, we molded the form of a new Endowment that would make it possible.

• Finally, this Ngram indicates that although the name including "Landon" was more commonly used up until the mid-1980s, since then the more common usage has been "Nancy Kassebaum", by a healthy two-to-one or three-to-one margin.

Cheers again! bd2412 T 20:47, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Survey

• (Weak) oppose - (At least this is a real person, not some franchise or a very first something.) I wish many sources use "Nancy Landon", or WP:COMMONNAMES should have been ignored in favor of "Nancy Landon" (but that won't happen). She divorced her husband, whose surname is Kassebaum. But alas, we have Susan Sarandon, whose ex-husband's surname is Sarandon. But Sarandon is an actress; for some reason, she, Hollywood, or other indie films bigwigs want to use "Susan Sarandon" as a stage surname. In this case, Nancy Landon Kassebaum is a politican, and she has a right to use any name she wants. But I guess sources don't often use "Nancy Baker", right? Scrapping out her birth surname "Landon" is like attempting to scrap out Hilary Rodham Clinton's birth surname, "Rodham". Unlike actress Sarandon case, why should we call this politician "Kassebaum" when she is no longer married to "Kassebaum" guy besides such sources? George Ho (talk) 22:30, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Are you proposing that we go back to Nancy Baker, which is her current married name? Prior to her first marriage, she was "Nancy Landon"; when she first ran for the Senate, she adopted the name "Nancy Landon Kassebaum" to take advantage of the name recognition of her famous father, "Alf Landon". Once she was elected, she primarily went by "Nancy Kassebaum", and she continued to use that name during her two successful bids for reelection, both after her divorce. A few weeks prior to the end of her last term in the Senate, she remarried, legally becoming "Nancy Landon Kassebaum Baker" (or "Nancy Baker"). Here is an article calling her "Nancy Landon Kassebaum Baker"; and here is a report of the wedding which states that thereafter, she "is to be known as Nancy Kassebaum Baker" - which, of course, reflects her own choice in the matter. I have not found any sources that use the name "Nancy Baker" at all. However, as recently as today, articles continue to refer to this subject as "Nancy Kassebaum". For the longest stretch of her career, including the entire period for which she was most notable, as a United States Senator, she was primarily known as "Nancy Kassebaum". So, between all the options - Nancy Landon, Nancy Landon Kassebaum, Nancy Kassebaum, Nancy Kassebaum Baker (or Nancy Kassebaum-Baker), Nancy Landon Kassebaum Baker, and Nancy Baker - the questions remaining are, which is the most common name for this subject, and which is the most concise? bd2412 T 23:40, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
• Strong support move, for the evidence in the nomination - although it also happens to coincide with Nancy Kassebaum's expressed choice to dispense with her maiden name. She did so in 1979, right after her first election, and has stuck with it ever since. It's important to acknowledge that the reason children in the United States are typically given the surnames of their fathers is because in old England children were considered to be the property of their father. It is no sign of respect to treat this woman as though, if she isn't married (or still with her first husband), then she remains the property of her father and has to be stamped with his last name against her own declared preference. But we don't need to get to that, because this is in fact the more common name, which policy favors, and the more concise name, which policy also favors. (Obviously the same goes for Hillary Clinton, who is free to stop using her maiden name, and has in fact done so without a flashy announcement). - WPGA2345 - ☛ 06:45, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
• Support, she is more famous under this name. Also, many divorced women do still prefer to drop their maiden name and keep their married name, perhaps because it is the name they share with their children. Torquemama007 (talk) 13:23, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

  Agreed - Arianna Huffington also comes to mind on the equally valid flip side - in this case divorced but kept her ex-husbands name, and she is not only widely know by that name, but established the The Huffington Post media franchise in her ex-married name. - WPGA2345 - ☛ 23:03, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

  In Asian (or part of Asian, like Chinese or Japanese) culture, many women, married or not, maintain their birth surnames. But I guess Nancy here is not Asian. George Ho (talk) 00:02, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

  It seems it is a cultural distinction, then. If you Google "divorced women who keep their married name," there is actually a very wide range of opinion and variety in this practice, and a great many women choose to do so in the United States for a great many reasons. I'm surprised that there isn't a Wikipedia article on this! - WPGA2345 - ☛ 04:51, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

  Well.... There are Chinese surname, Double-barrelled name, Iberian naming customs, etc. George Ho (talk) 06:36, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

• Support - Since the Senator's WP:COMMONNAMES are Nancy Kassebaum, Nancy Kaussebaum Baker, and Nancy Landon Kessebaum, this should not be a difficult choice. The WP:CONCISE name is also WP:NPOV as Nancy Kassebaum is the common denominator of both long names. Preferring one long name over the other is problematic, at least. gidonb (talk) 12:59, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments

I would just like to note for the benefit of the closing administrator that "I wish that sources used the name I prefer" is about the farthest thing from a valid argument with respect to a page move. Cheers! bd2412 T 18:05, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Justice Clarence Thomas quote

That US Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas quote is very very old. Has the former Senator said anything lately about how Thomas is doing? --24.177.0.156 (talk) 19:38, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

• I can't find anything more recent on the topic. bd2412 T 20:57, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

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