Talk:Nasal click

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, as about the class rather than the specific element of the class. -- JHunterJ (talk) 20:35, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

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Nasal clicks → Nasal click – Singular as in Nasal consonant, Nasal stop etc, see Category:Nasal consonants. Undo pluralization unilaterally introduced by Kwamikagami [1] HTML2011 (talk) 09:34, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

• Support. This gscholar search shows that the singular form is regularly used in scholarly works, so we should use the singular form per WP:SINGULAR. Jenks24 (talk) 20:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
• Comment It's odd HTML2011 would accuse me of "unilaterally introducing" pluralization, when I'm the one who wrote the article. If you create an article, you can 'unilaterally' decide on whichever name you choose.

The idea behind the plural is the same as that behind "X languages": There is "the" nasal click at place of articulation X, such as alveolar [ŋǃ]. "Nasal click" in the singular implies a plain, modal nasal, and that is what all of those GScholar hits are referring to. But there are other, rarer, kinds of nasal clicks all well, such as [ŋ̊ǃʰ] and [ŋǃˀ], which is what this article is about. These are generally not what people mean when they use "nasal click" in the singular: "nasal alveolar click" is understood to mean [ŋǃ], not [ŋ̊ǃʰ] or [ŋǃˀ], despite the fact that the latter are nasal, alveolar, and clicks. This is parallel to the difference between the Hindi language and Hindi languages: the plural is used to avoid confusion with the singular. — kwami (talk) 21:24, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

• • Hmmm, to be completely honest, I didn't understand a lot of what you just said, but you generally seem to be on the money with this language stuff, so I will assume it's correct (which obviously weakens my support vote above). But can you explain why nasal click redirects here if they are different things? Jenks24 (talk) 23:57, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

For the same reason 'Hindi language' might redirect to 'Hindi languages' if it were a minor tongue with not enough info to justify an article. It's not a different thing, it's a subset. We have cases of that, with languages in families with hundreds of minor tongues like Malayo-Polynesian and Bantu, where "X language" is a specific language but redirects to "X languages", a family that was named after it as a representative language.

This is a judgement call, not right or wrong. But when people say "nasal click", without elaboration, they mean one particular kind of nasal click, the one corresponding to nasal consonants like m, n, ŋ among the stops. These clicks are the subject of the first paragraph after the lead. "Nasal click" redirects here because I didn't feel like writing any more about it than that. The following paragraphs, however, deal with other kinds of nasal clicks, which are not what people generally mean when they say "nasal click", just as the Hindi languages article deals with various languages which are not generally what people mean when they say "Hindi". So, potentially, that first paragraph could be expanded into a full article called "nasal click", and this article would remain for the broader set of sounds.

Or take German dialects, even though we don't have an article on 'German dialect'. — kwami (talk) 02:45, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Alveolar clicks which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:16, 18 August 2018 (UTC)