Talk:Nastasya Filippovna

Agree they need to be merged - one of them made into a redirect. PamD (talk) 23:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Nastasya Filippovna's attitude towards Myshkin

I recently added the following part: According to Rogozhin, his conclusion about Nastasya Filippovna’s attitude towards Myshkin is based on her own words.

For some reason it was removed as unimportant and I was not told why. I do not agree with the editor, since what I wrote is said in the text of the novel. This information shows that Rogozhin’s statement is not his pure fantasy. I want to hear the argument from who removed my additions and that it should be more than just an "unnecessary addition". I would like to know why for this article it is unnecessary to know Nastasya Filippovna’s opinion from the book, although formulated indirectly, about her own feelings. Vip Everyday (talk) 13:12, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

You speak of "Nastasya Filippovna's opinion from the book about her own feelings." I don't think she does express such an opinion in the book—her feelings for Myshkin are complex and not easily "formulated"—but in any case it is not necessary to insert it here. The paragraph to which you have added the sentence is background information to the section it introduces, which is "Nastasya Filippovna, Myshkin and Aglaya". It is transitioning the discussion away from the first triangle involving Rogozhin. The essential point is that Rogozhin thinks NF is in love with the Prince, and that is what the article says; there is no suggestion it is just his fantasy, so why would we need to show that it's not his fantasy? Adding debatable details about the premises for his conclusion distracts from the paragraph's purpose, disrupts the continuity, and is unnecessary in the context.

Looking at the long dialogue between Myshkin and Rogozhin near the beginning of Part 2, I don't think there is a clear statement from Rogozhin that his conviction is drawn from NF's own confession. At one point he asserts "She's loved you ever since that birthday soiree", and goes on to speak of her reluctance to marry him (Myshkin) because of her own disgrace and the sort of woman she is. At this point he says "She always says that about herself. She told me all this straight to my face. She’s afraid to ruin and disgrace you..." It is not clear from this that Rogozhin is referring to a confession from NF of being in love with the Prince. One could conjecture that he is basing his conclusion on her words, but neither his words nor the narration state it unambiguously. The lack of clarity might even suggest that he is aware that his conclusion is based on matters other than her words; it is ambiguous, deliberately so on the author’s part. There is no need to make this assertion, that is why I said "unnecessary" (not "unimportant"). Harold the Sheep (talk) 06:36, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Okay, maybe it’s not entirely clear what exact words Rogozhin means. However, the most likely explanation is that his “all this” refers to the entire conclusion about feelings of Nastasya Filippovna, and not only the part which concerns her "reluctance to marry him (Myshkin) because of her own disgrace". Let me remind you that she spoke about what kind of woman she is not only directly to Rogozhin, but also to Myshkin in the first chapter of the book. This would not have been a surprise to the Prince, although the whole story was a surprise.

In any case, I don't see why this isn't necessary, given that you yourself don't think it's unimportant. Such a remark would show that Rogozhin's thoughts are not the result of his jealousy, as people could read from this article. There is strong evidence to the contrary, that Rogozhin’s opinion is at least partially based on the words of Nastasya Filippovna. If you have a better reformulation, I'd be happy to discuss it. Vip Everyday (talk) 10:57, 14 September 2023 (UTC)