Talk:Nathan Hale

Hale's statue in front of the CIA HQ doubted

According to Wikipedia, that diamond mine of accuracy, "Its headquarters are in the community of Langley in the McLean CDP of Fairfax County, Virginia, across the Potomac River from Washington, D.C.." Is the Nathan Hale sculpture being confused with one in front of the Dept. of Justice, mentioned in this article? --Wetman 06:33, 22 September 2005 (UTC) [1]? - Nunh-huh 09:56, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

This information needs to be added to this article...

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0307-8/hale.html

A contemporary account of Nathan Hale's capture written by Consider Tiffany, a Connecticut shopkeeper and Loyalist, was obtained by the Library of Congress. In Tiffany's account, Robert Rogers met Hale in a colonial tavern and saw through Hale's disguise of a harmless schoolmaster. After luring Hale into betraying his espionage activities by pretending to be a patriot himself, Rogers and his Queens Rangers later apprehended Hale near Flushing Bay. After a trial before British General William Howe and testimony by Rogers himself, Hale was sentenced to be hanged as a spy. [2] [3] [4]

This information is important as the mysteriousness surrounding Hale's capture is dispelled and, his capturer, Robert Rogers is another famous figure in colonial history.
--Flask, May 2006 (UTC)

Interesting information and a good source. Go ahead and add it to the article. Sunray 18:22, 6 May 2006 (UTC) (lynnrd)

Okay. Added. --Flask, May 2006 (UTC)

No record?

I've seen (somewhere...) a claim the diary of Cpn Frederick Mackenzie records Hale's last words as, "It is the duty of every good officer to obey any orders given him by his commander-in-chief." (Hardly inspiring, & likely changed for propaganda reasons...) Trekphiler 03:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

That is interesting. There's a lot via Google for exact phrase http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-03,GGLD:en&q=t+is+the+duty+of+every+good+officer+to+obey+any+orders+given+him+by+his+commander%2Din%2Dchief

With the first entry http://www.ctssar.org/patriots/hale_nathan_2.htm

Sounds like there's something to be added. Thanks!

--Americasroof 00:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Why is there no Wikipedia article on "the infamous Povost Marshall William Cunningham"? I think there should be a link on his name. -Woodwindwaker

Fact about Yale Statue

This is something I heard from a tour guide while visiting Yale University, regarding the statue. I'm unable to prove that it is real, but perhaps someone should look into this.

Because Nathan Hale died before he could report back, he was not alive when the statue of him was created. There were no living portraits of him, so instead the sculptor examined a line up of the students at Yale, and selected the most 'patriotic' one to model as Hale. Also, the CIA requested that Yale give them the statue, but this request was turned down for several years. Late one night, CIA operatives trespassed onto Yale property to make plaster moulds of the statue, and brought them back to the CIA building. --JodoYodo 01:13, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The sculptor was Bela Lyon Pratt: Nathan Hale was most certainly not alive to model for her in 1908! The idea of creating an "ideal" by combining the best features of many models is a familiar |literary trope of Classicism, with roots in Antiquity. The process of making a mold is more complicated than the blythe tour guide imagines: cast replicas of bronzes have been commonplace since the 16th century: nowadays they commonly are issued within the sculptor's arrangements with her foundry. --Wetman 06:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The Yale tour guides are not reliable sources. They also claim that in the event of fire, all the oxygen can be sucked out of the rare books and manuscripts library, and that current students rub the toe of another statue for luck, which is the one thing they don't do to it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davenportheir (talk • contribs) 02:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Doubt this should be mentioned, but maybe...

In an upcoming game for the Playstation 3 you play as a character named Nathan Hale [5]. If there was a "Nathan Hale in Popular Culture" section of this article, it would probably go there, but in the absence of that, should it be mentioned at all? Salur 00:37, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Juvenile

Some person who seems to think it's funny, littered this article with expletives. For some reason, I am unable to clean it.

Also, over on the Bill Richmond's, the boxer, page it says that he was the executer who hanged Nathan Hale in England in 1777. Verify?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.223.222.253 (talk • contribs) 15:20, 9 February 2007

I verified it and added a citation to both articles. Thanks for bringing this fact to our attention! --Elipongo ^{(Talk|contribs)} 18:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I just signed in to revert the article after I noticed that it had replaced simply by the word "Loser!," but I see that someone has beaten me to it. Good on you, whoever that is. intooblv 04:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Statue of Nathan Hale

I reccomend that a mention under "Other Statues" be made of the statue in front of the Chicago Tribune building on Michigan Avenue in Chicago. There is a photo of this statue futher up in the article, but no mention of it in the listing of "other statues". Tony 14:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I see that since this comment was posted, that it's request was honored. However, there are two pictures of the same statue sculpted by the same person (that infront of Tribune Tower.) The article lists several places where replicas of that same statue stand, yet the one in front of Tribune Tower has its own bullet-point. A minor issue - but just something that caught my eye and seemed odd. I'm going to go ahead and make that minor adjustment, by removing one of the two pictures, and including the text about that particular Tribune Tower statue with the other replicas of itself.

I just changed it, but while I was doing that, I realized that I'm not sure that the statue infront of Tribune Tower was by Bela Lynn [forgot last name]. I only thought it was based on the captions of the pictures. I'll make a point to check out the artists name next time I walk by the building.

Nathan Hale Schools

I belive there was a Nathan Hale School near Halesite. Tailsfan2 16:22, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Yes there is. See the www.hufsd.edu for details. It is now condos.Tailsfan2 16:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Asterisk

I really like this, but I can't put it into the rest of the article -- it just isn't encyclopedic:

A Nathan Hale is an asterisk, notionally, from "I regret that I have only one asterisk for my country!"[6]

Source for "best spy"?

The lead paragraph claims that Hale is widely considered America's best spy. The only source provided is the fact that there is a statue of him at CIA headquarters. I find the claim that he is the "best" spy (even assuming it was possible to quantify that) in the history of the country to be pretty dubious. Is there any objection to removing this claim? -Sarcasmboy 01:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Agree. It's a little odd to call him America's best spy considering the guy was captured in the act so therefore failed. He is more remembered for being a martyr and for his pre-execution speeches than any act he performed. --Neon white 00:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Ya, he could be the most famous spy. He only lasted 10 days. But a famous spy is a bad one... Xcerptshow (talk) 09:16, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Please review my revert

I just reverted a bunch of edits made to the article by 69.181.72.206 (talk · contribs), since, at a first glance, they looked like vandalism (removal of entire paragraphs, removal of ref tags, etc.). However, upon looking at them more closely, I'm not so sure anymore: the footnote/reference that was removed is distinctly odd, and the removed paragraphs are unreferenced and don't really match the more detailed information given in Halesite, New York. I've undone my revert for the time being, but I'd like to have some second opinions on this. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 12:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Bill Richmond, Executioner

I've rewritten the text to put it in accord with the statements in Kevin R. Smith's book, which sounds a lot more reasonable given that Richmond was only a 13 year old boy, but still ... I feel almost 100% certain this story is apocryphal. It apparently rests only on Richmond's story, but Richmond told some whoppers that even Smith concedes are "difficult to believe," like that General Hugh Percy routinely arranged to have a 12 year old Richmond fight adult British soldiers at dinner parties. None of the historians and biographers of Nathan Hale mention it, at least from what I could find on Google. For the record, Hale's actual executioner seems to have been William Cunningham, a Provost Marshal of the British Army, as noted in several sources available on Google Book Search. 69.230.120.39 (talk) 17:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Amerifascist?

In 2008 perspective, when Rwtsh (right wing talk show host) and ilk are belaboring the point that we face an onslought of "islamofascists" who want to kill us, it may be remembered that Hale (if he was a spy, and the point is he is remembered as such, and for his speech justifying it) had orders to relay information about British troops that would result in their deaths. The "suicide bomber" martyrs trained in madrassahs are really in this fine old American tradition, offering their lives for Islam or, as some say, for Iraq or Afghanistan.Tokerdesigner (talk) 19:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? 1. Espionage is not suicide bombing. 2. That has absolutely nothing to do with improving the article, which the whole point of talk pages. EvilCouch (talk) 01:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Speaking as a former solider, I can tell you that it is their business to face death. Military operations to compass this, (and associated activities, such as info gathering / spying) are part of the grim business of war.

Suicide is not part of the (relatively) humane tradition of western civilisation, and is not well thought of when encountered, as in the Japanese kamikazis of the last big war.

You are an anti-western fruit loop. No doubt part of the reason this article has been locked. 213.205.251.122 (talk) 18:21, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Coincidence or mistake?

Isn't Nathan Hale the guy from Resistence Fall of Man?

The Speech

I see a lot about the quote " My only regret....", But I don't see any sources. In fact the line, " Most misremembered quote of all time", Clearly violates Wikipedia's "weasel words" policy. For now I am going to edit it. No offense poster. Please rewrite it if you can find some sources or statistics to make this claim. This paragraph should also be tagged for lack of sources aswell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.176.58.217 (talk) 14:49, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

One point about the speech. There are at least a couple of precedence for it:

• "If I had a thousand lives I could lay them all down for the cause"(Daniel Axtell 1660 -- see also the Good Old Cause)
• "If I had a thousand lives, I would lay them all down in the same cause."( Lord Balmerino 1746) [7]

So is the phrase a well know one from somewhere else or is it just a coincidence that three men used very similar wording? --PBS (talk) 16:40, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

There are two Nathan Hale statues in New London, Connecticut. One is on the campus of Mitchell College, the other is in Nathan Hale Park at the corner of Williams St. and Broad St. Both statues depict Hale with his hands and feet bound with ropes. I can provide photos of both statues.

Also in New London, Connecticut is the Nathan Hale Schoolhouse. Nathan Hale was the school teacher in New London right before he joined the Continental Army. Much of the original structure of the schoolhouse is still intact, though it is not in its original location. It is seasonally open to the public. I can also provide a photo of the schoolhouse.

Spinellidave (talk) 19:20, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Maintenance, cleanup and other changes

I notice a few dead links, which I will mark, and attempt to find a better source if possible. I expect I will use the Seymour book in a few cases; I'd prefer to do it with the sfn template, so I'll convert other books to that as well, calling the foot notes section "notes" and adding a reference section for referenced books. I'll leave the separate bibliography section, which logically belongs in References, but I don't see that those books were cited.--SPhilbrickT 12:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm also going to use LDR style referencing, ask if you have any questions.--SPhilbrickT 12:58, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Sideways image?

Why the heck is the image of the statue of Hale at the top of the page rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise? Looks very, very silly. TaintedMustard (talk) 12:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Fixed now, looks like. TaintedMustard (talk) 07:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Verb in famous quote

The lede says "give for my country", but the other mentions say "lose for my country". I'm reluctant to change the lede as it's sourced to Crocker, who apparently disagrees with Seymour. Which is it? Can somebody address this? Woodshed (talk) 07:49, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Dead Cite[s]

The cite for the alleged quote points to itself. I've always heard it as "I regret only that I have but one life to give for my country."
So, should I just change it and put in my own dead link as a citation? Darr247 (talk) 14:43, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Burial?

I don't find anything in the article about it. 150.243.14.35 (talk) 20:33, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Yale alumni

"Scholar Mary Beth Baker has argued that some of Hale's posthumous fame arose from a desire by alumni of Yale to claim a Revolutionary War hero, in addition to Yale president Naphtali Daggett, John Trumbull, and others." is sourced (via broken link) to this article: http://www.connecticutsar.org/pdf/nathan_hale_ct_history.pdf which says no such thing.

199.116.171.80 (talk) 22:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

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Daniel Hale /"descendant"

I found the Washington Post article reporting that Daniel Hale, convicted for leaks of classified information "said" that he's a descendant of Nathan Hale. All the information I've seen indicates that Nathan Hale was never married and had no children. If that's accurate, he would have no descendants, and nobody alive now could claim him as an ancestor. More accurate might be "relative." I think an improvement would be to change the mention of Daniel Hale to say something of the effect of "claimed descendant" or "possible relative." Thoughts?

Citation 8

Citation 8 is used behind these sentences, "Hale volunteered on September 8, 1776, to go behind enemy lines and report on British troop movements, which he knew was an act of spying, punishable by death. He was ferried across the Long Island Sound to Huntington, New York, on British-controlled Long Island, on September 12. Hale planned to disguise himself as a Dutch schoolteacher looking for work" The date isnt cited and I have seen other dates from other sources. IDK which is correct, but no sense putting out possibly inaccurate info. None of that info is in that book. The speculation about the disguise isnt cited and needs to go away. Because it says he may have but probably didnt which begs the question of why mention it?

Solution: remove 9/8 date and the schoolteacher bit. Xcerptshow (talk) 09:25, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Kusunoki Masashige

In the "see also" section it mentions Kusunoki Masashige as also being famous for his final words before execution, however Kusunoki Masashige was not executed, and it was his brother, Kusunoki Masasue, who (apparently) said "would that I had seven lives to give for my country!", I think this should either be removed from this page or rectified — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.188.43.18 (talk) 20:16, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

In popular culture

Can someone please add an in popular culture section. An earth warship in S2 E1 of the expanse in named Nathan Hale. In S1 of Ghost Hunters the team investigates the Nathan Hale house, where Hale grew up. 2600:6C51:7A7E:E3D0:B81E:19DF:A13A:E5F5 (talk) 06:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)