Talk:National Association for Chiropractic Medicine

Good start

Excellent! AED, please contact me by email. -- Fyslee 12:14, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I am trying to figure out why you wrote "Excellent!" above. Who are you responding to? Thanks Steth 04:36, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

AED created the article, and it needed to be done, hence my comment. Similar articles need to be created for the other chiropractic organizations. -- Fyslee 12:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Unreliable source removed

I have removed a reference to a source that is unreliable for a number of reasons:

a. The author is pseudonymous ("Anthony di Fabio" is the pen name of a science fiction writer). Thus it fails WP:V.

b. It contains blatant advocacy of Scientology's Suppressive Person Doctrine. Thus it is advocacy and propaganda.

c. The author openly states "I have not verified most of the materials referenced." Thus it fails WP:RS.

The reference was obviously inserted in the article as a negative POV attack on the NACM, and no regard for whether it was true seems to be in evidence. We aren't in the business of simply repeating attacks here. This is not tabloid journalism. -- Fyslee/talk 07:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Article from Journal of Controversial Medicine

In 2002 the Journal of Controversial Medical Claims published a paper submitted by the NACM entitled "NACM and its argument with mainstream chiropractic health care."

• The references from the article

Brangifer (talk) 22:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Does this organization still exist?

I noticed the website is now down. I remember trying for naught to call the phone number on the website back when the site was up last year. Disconnected. I haven't seen anything reported about any recent activity from this organization in years. Does anyone have any evidence that this organization still exists? Tax filing? Non-profit status? Something? -- ǝʌlǝʍʇ ǝuo-ʎʇuǝʍʇ ^ssnɔsıp 07:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

NACM is official defunct. President Ronald Slaughter DC has killed the website and the entire group. Abotnick (talk) 00:13, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for that statement? Not finding the website proves nothing. A WP:RS source has to state it. The group way well have gone longer underground. They have been a semi underground organization for years. -- Brangifer (talk) 05:19, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Working on it. This was relayed to me by a professional news reporter. I emailed Ronald Slaughter DC, President of NACM for confirmation yesterday. Will let you know if he responds. The lack of contact information and a website means the group is dead.Abotnick (talk) 13:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Even if it were true, it wouldn't be admissible as content here unless supported by publication in very reliable secondary sources. A news reporter word, nor lack of a website, don't count. Until such published sources are available, it's best to leave speculation out of Wikipedia. -- Brangifer (talk) 17:33, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Dr. Ronald Slaughter emailed me confirmation that the NACM has disbanded:

Sat, March 6, 2010 11:00:10 AM

RE: NACM status

From: Ronald L. Slaughter <ronlslaughter@hotmail.com> View Contact

To: aljbotnick@yahoo.com

All good things come to an end. We tried. We failed. Chiropractic is a "failed" profession.

rs

You can email him if you have any questions. I'll modify the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abotnick (talk • contribs) 18:04, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Allen, what part of "publication in very reliable secondary sources" don't you understand? You were warned, and yet you persist in violating one of the most core policies at Wikipedia. Stop it or you will be blocked. Mind you I have no problem with adding such information to the article IF it can be properly sourced. An email, even from Slaughter, doesn't even come close to our sourcing requirements. It must be a published RS, independent of the NACM or its enemies. -- Brangifer (talk) 20:32, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Dynamic Chirpractic published an article documenting the death of NACM. You have your reference. http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=54548 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abotnick (talk • contribs) 17:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

While Dynamic Chiropractic, as an enemy of the NACM, isn't necessarily a reliable source for bad news about it, in this case this may be the only source we can use, and we may as well use it until a more neutral source pops up. I have cleaned up the addition so it harmonizes with our style guidelines and updated the links, using the archived version of the website. I have also created a "Demise" section to describe the situation, and have mentioned the demise in the lead, per our rules for WP:Lead. It's a sad day indeed when the profession refuses to reform. The NACM tried and failed. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:24, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Brangifer why do you say that Dynamic Chiropractic is an enemy to NACM,that obviously do not exist? Do you have any source for that information? How can one be an enemy to something that do not exist?--Bertilsson (talk) 13:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I wrote "as" an enemy, not "is" an enemy. The NACM existed for many years, and it's an easily documentable fact that DC often attacked it, its mission, and its leaders. The hatred expressed is often rather shocking. When I first got on the internet in the 1990s, I often participated and lurked on chiropractic discussion lists and was shocked at the language and vicious fighting that occurred among chiropractors. It was worse than any longshoreman's drunken brawl. For several years I was a moderator for the NACM's private discussion list and "knew" many of its members. They were very interested in bringing their profession out of the isolation it endured because of the incipient unethical and unscientific beliefs and conduct of so many of its members. They wanted to show that joint manipulation, as just one of the many valid manual therapy methods practiced by Physical Therapists, had a legitimate place that didn't require making false claims for it. They obviously rejected the false chiropractic dogma of vertebral subluxation. For some interesting reading, take a look at this search of the Dynamic Chiropractic website. Other terms might turn up more information. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:10, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Officially NACM rejected subluxation but actually what they mainly objected to was the idea that chiropractors could realign bones and that this would help nonmusculoskeletal complaints. NACM promoted the fixation model of subluxation where bones are believed to develop restricted mobility that could be addressed by manipulation. Because this is one version of subluxation theory it isn't correct to say that NACM totally rejected all concepts of subluxation. Actually fixation theory turned out to be as hokey as misalignment theory so NACM's stance wasn't tenable either. The only group existing to counter chiropractic are abolitionists such as at the Chirotalk Skeptical Discussion website at chirotalk.proboards.com. These individuals feel that chiropractic scope is too narrow to treat biomechanical problems of the spine and that the likelihood of this being corrected is too low to endorse the profession. Abotnick (talk) 19:46, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

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