Talk:National Cabinet (Australia)

Requested move 2 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Already moved to "National Cabinet (Australia)", which seems a reasonable compromise. National Cabinet should go to RfD and see if there is consensus to retarget it. buidhe 22:56, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

---

National Cabinet of Australia → National Cabinet – "National Cabinet" already redirects there. The "of Australia" qualifier is not used in official statements (e.g. [1]) and does not appear to be in use by the media, based on ghits. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 05:17, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:24, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

• @Var the Boneful: The "of Australia" qualifier may well be omitted in official statements made within Australia, but in much of the rest of the world omitting it is ambiguous. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:26, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose "National Cabinet" should be intended as disambiguate page because there is no clear primary topic for this article. While National Cabinet searched as intended for Australia specifically, it was too much many "National Cabinet" in other countries. For me, disambiguation page should be created. 182.1.1.134 (talk) 23:34, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
• Support I consider National Cabinet to be a more appropriate title as there is no ambiguity as the name is not in use elsewhere. This would be consistent with how this situation is addressed in other cases by the English Wikipedia. I note that I actually created an article under the name National Cabinet on March 22 but it was subsequently merged into this article. Robert Brockway (talk) 08:30, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
• Support "National Cabinet" is in itself a proper noun and hence I don't think (anymore) that it requires a qualifier (it's like calling the CDC the "CDC of the United States"). Not to mention, I don't know of any other country that has created an intergovernmental COVID-19 decision making forum and named it "National Cabinet," so inherently, the "of Australia" is dispensable. ItsPugle (talk) 09:36, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
• Support. I was originally opposed on the grounds of ambiguity and the generic-sounding nature of the name, but as I can find no trace of a similar name in another country, I can't see why the article name shouldn't be the same as the actual name. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:10, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. Far too generic and ambiguous. National Cabinet should redirect to Cabinet (government). -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:15, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Without "Australia" then no one outside the country will have any idea what this is talking about. Superegz (talk) 00:42, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Superegz Just type "national" into the search bar, and see the very long list of names of bodies and establishments with no country qualifier. You find out by reading the shortdesc or lead. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:58, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Laterthanyouthink's comments. As I said, I don't think that there is a huge chance of this being mistaken as I don't know of any other country which has created an organisation for COVID-19 and have called it National Cabinet. The "of Australia" qualifier simply isn't necessary. Plus, this is what the {{about}} template pages are for. ItsPugle (talk) 09:01, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

• Comment As an idea, what if we move the page National Cabinet to be a disambiguation page, and look at calling this page National Cabinet (Australia) (Cabinet of Australia could also be moved to Cabinet (Australia))? ItsPugle (talk) 09:01, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Too generic and prone to confusion. I'd support moving to National Cabinet (Australia) and redirecting National Cabinet to Cabinet (government). – Ammarpad (talk) 10:16, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
• Comment National Cabinet (Australia) would be preferable to National Cabinet of Australia as the latter appears to be a proper name which is not actually in use while the former shows the name correctly as the National Cabinet. Robert Brockway (talk) 12:38, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
• Comment Belated thought - compare with the entries for various other Cabinets. While the official name for these bodies in their respective countries is just "Cabinet", our articles are called "Cabinet of Australia", "Cabinet of the United Kingdom", etc. (and I see there's an article for the Cabinet of South Australia), with the names bolded as such, which kind of matches the title of this article... So I'm back on the fence here. Might look at some more articles tomorrow. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 13:57, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

• Okay, so the consensus appears to be that we're against moving the article to National Cabinet, but instead would like to possibly move it to National Cabinet (Australia) and redirecting National Cabinet to Cabinet (government). Can I get some comments/feedback here, so we can establish this consensus? ItsPugle (talk) 08:10, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment I believe there is consensus for National Cabinet (Australia) rather than National Cabinet of Australia but I believe National Cabinet should redirect to National Cabinet (Australia). If another example appears National Cabinet could become a disambiguation page. Robert Brockway (talk) 00:58, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Article moved to National Cabinet (Australia) We still need to come upon a deliberation about what to do with National Cabinet: either keep the redirect to National Cabinet (Australia) or redirect it to Cabinet (government). National Cabinet already redirected to this article, so I've updated that link, but otherwise we still need a consensus :) ItsPugle (talk) 01:19, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Leave as is, unless and until another body of the same name is created. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 02:10, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

---

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Image uploaded

Hey! I sourced an image from the NSW Government that shows the National Cabinet meeting. You can see it here. ItsPugle (talk) 10:24, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

RfC: Apparently National Cabinet is purely about jobs...

Hi! I'm just going through some of the founding announcements about National Cabinet and all that, and it appears that ScoMo has said "The National Cabinet will be driven by an initial single agenda - to create jobs. A job making agenda". It was also announced that National Cabinet will fall within a larger organisation, the "National Federation Reform Council", which is formed of National Cabinet, the Council on Federal Financial Relations and the ALGA. It also said the Council on Federal Financial Relations will report to National Cabinet. In short, it's all a bit of a hodge-podge as to exactly what National Cabinet is... I'm thinking that to kind of reset this article a bit (considering National Cabinet went from being a meeting about COVID to being the central cooperation body for all of Australia), it might be worth creating a National Federation Reform Council article, with sections for National Cabinet, the Council on Federal Financial Relations, and for ALGA (which will have a {{main}} hatnote)? ItsPugle (talk) 05:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

This RFC seems to be slightly malformed but I guess we can still discuss the point. Personally suspect there'll be a lot of overlap in content between hypothetical National Cabinet and National Federation Reform Council article; anything substantive is going to be signed off on at a head of government level even if other parts of the Council did most of the work. We might be better off just renaming the National Cabinet article and expanding it to cover the whole thing.

Regardless of whether we have one article or two I guess most of the existing content should be moved into an expanded history section that covers the National Cabinet's origin as an ad hoc crisis management committee and transformation into a replacement for COAG. --RaiderAspect (talk) 06:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree, this RfC is somewhat malformed. That said, I tend to think one article is enough. There is likely to be too much overlap if separate articles are created for every entity/name.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 18:08, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

References

"Creating National Cabinet (Australia)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Creating National Cabinet (Australia). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 6#Creating National Cabinet (Australia) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 12:09, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Role and responsibilities

I have removed part of this section that was misleading and inaccurate. It seemed to say that National Cabinet was a bypass and even replacement of parliament or a fundamental change to Australian governmental structure. All it is is a meeting of PM and Premiers to coordinate them exercising executive powers they already have. It does not assume any powers of State or Commonwealth Parliament nor bestow any new powers.

I think the text was talking about Executive federalism as a model in general, but came across as misleading .