Talk:National Treasure (Japan)

Gallery

As noted, Japan has more than 1000 national treasures and I don't think it's realistic to list all of them. Instead, I am thinking to make a gallery of notable National Treasures of Japan. Does anyone have some comment? --219.122.169.128 08:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

• 
  Hōryū-ji's Kondo (法隆寺金堂) Superlative of superlative. The oldest wooden building in the world.
• 
  Hōryū-ji's Pagoda (法隆寺五重塔) Superlative of superlative.
• 
  Tōshōdai-ji's Kondo (唐招提寺金堂) Superlative. Representative of Tenpyo Culture
• 
  Yakushi-ji's East Pagoda (薬師寺東塔) Superlative. Representative of Hakuho Culture
• 
  Ujigami Shrine (宇治上神社) The oldest Shinto shrine construction in the world.
• 
  Itsukushima Shrine (厳島神社)
• 
  Tōdai-ji's Kondo (東大寺金堂) Wooden building of the world's largest class.
• 
  Izumo-taisha's Honden (出雲大社本殿)
• 
  Sanbutsu-ji's Nageiredo (三仏寺投入堂)
• 
  Byōdō-in's Phoenix Hall (平等院鳳凰堂) Superlative.
• 
  Kiyomizu-dera Main Hall (清水寺本殿)
• 
  Ishiyama-dera's Pagoda (石山寺多宝塔) Representative of Two-Storied Pagoda
• 
  Ichijō-ji's Pagoda (一乗寺三重塔) Representative of Wayo Style
• 
  Jōdo-ji's Jododo (浄土寺浄土堂) Representative of Daibutsu Style
• 
  Kōzan-ji (Shimonoseki)'s Butsuden (功山寺仏殿) Representative of Zen Style
• 
  Ginkaku-ji's The Silver Pavilion (銀閣寺) Representative of Higashiyama Culture and Historic Monuments of Ancient Kyoto
• 
  Kimpusen-ji's Zaodo (金峯山寺蔵王堂) Representative of Sacred Sites and Pilgrimage Routes in the Kii Mountain Range
• 
  Nikkō Tōshō-gū's Yomeimon (日光東照宮陽明門) Representative of Shrines and Temples of Nikkō
• 
  Himeji Castle (姫路城) Superlative of superlative.
• 
  Ōura Church (大浦天主堂) Unique
• 
  Hōryū-ji's Gautama Buddha (法隆寺釈迦三尊像) Superlative
• 
  Hōryū-ji's Guan Yin (法隆寺観音菩薩（久世観音）立像) Superlative.
• 
  Ashura of Kōfuku-ji (興福寺阿修羅像) Superlative
• 
  Kōryū-ji's Bodhisattva (広隆寺弥勒菩薩半跏像) Superlative
• Byōdō-in's Amida Nyorai (平等院阿弥陀如来像) Superlative, Jōchō's most important work
  Byōdō-in's Amida Nyorai (平等院阿弥陀如来像) Superlative, Jōchō's most important work
• 
  Tōdai-ji's Nio (東大寺金剛力士像) Superlative, Unkei's most important work
• 
  Jōdo-ji's Amitābha (浄土寺阿弥陀三尊像) Superlative, Kaikei's most important work
• 
  Kōfuku-ji's Seshin (興福寺世親像)
• 
  Tōdai-ji's Daibutsu (東大寺大仏) Superlative. Representative of Historic Monuments of Ancient Nara
• 
  Takamatsuzuka Tomb mural (高松塚古墳壁画) Superlative.
• 
  Illustrated scroll of the Tale of Genji. Superlative.
• 
  Chōjū-jinbutsu-giga (鳥獣戯画)　
• 
  Shigisan-engi (信貴山縁起絵巻)
• 
  Amanohashidate, Sesshū
• 
  Wind God and Thunder God, Tawaraya Sōtatsu.
• 
  Pine Trees(right), Hasegawa Tōhaku

None of this makes any sense. The Zenkō-ji in Nagano, and its constituent parts are, in fact, National Treasures, but the prefecture is not even listed among the statistical numbers. What gives? All of this needs to be researched much better... NeoThe1

P.S. Do you even know how to make galleries? Please do not spam talk pages with huge, disorganised images. NeoThe1 15:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

In the photographies above, I changed the list of the building etc.

It looks like content of textbooks of the schools of the large majority of Japan. That is, it is a list based on an average Japanese broad recognition. --663highland (talk) 12:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

OK. This chart may satisfy you.

Prefecture	Building Structures	Art Works
Hokkaido	0	0
Aomori	0	2
Iwate	1	7
Miyagi	3	3
Akita	0	1
Yamagata	1	4
Fukushima	1	2
Ibaragi	0	2
Tochigi	6	10
Gunma	0	0
Saitama	0	1
Chiba	0	8
Tokyo	1	233
Kanagawa	1	18
Niigata	0	1
Toyama	1	0
Ishikawa	0	3
Fukui	2	4
Yamanashi	2	3
Nagano	5	2
Gifu	3	3
Shizuoka	0	11
Aichi	3	6
Mie	0	4
Shiga	22	33
Kyoto	48	207
Osaka	5	55
Hyogo	11	9
Nara	64	143
Wakayama	7	29
Tottori	1	2
Shimane	2	2
Okayama	2	4
Hiroshima	7	12
Yamaguchi	3	6
Tokushima	0	0
Kagawa	2	4
Ehime	3	9
Kochi	1	1
Fukuoka	0	12
Saga	0	0
Nagasaki	3	0
Kumamoto	0	0
Oita	2	2
Miyazaki	0	0
Kagoshima	0	1
Okinawa	0	1
Total	213	860

Source: Database of National Cultural Properties, the Agency for Cultural Affairs of Japan.

Hey, this is pretty damn cool! NeoThe1 15:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

There is still a problem. Do you have any idea how to do with the section of List of National Treasures.

These are obviously wrong,

• Hirosaki (Hirosaki Castle)
• Matsuyama Castle (Iyo)
• Grand Shrine of Ise
• Shuri Castle
• Kamakura (Tsurugaoka Hachiman Shrine); see also Engaku-ji, above

These are inaccurate,

• Asuka, Nara (Takamatsuzuka Kofun)
• Dewa Three Mountains
• Hon'ami Kōetsu
• Kano Eitoku
• Kotokuin
• Ogata Korin
• Sesshu

I dont, and I dont wish you to urge me to build the list of ALL the national treasures.--60.56.39.14 06:50, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Why the hell not? It would ve a) very cool and b) very encyclopaedic...if you could substantiate it, like the list above. NeoThe1 15:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Sacred Mirror

The following exchange was copied from Talk:Ise Shrine:

There is only one national treasure in Ise shrine (Jingu-shicho, not Naiku [1]). 玉篇巻 is Makimono, not mirror. And "Sacred Mirror" (ja:八咫鏡 and etc.) is not a national treasure. --N yotarou 18:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Why isn't the mirror a national treasure? It should be. If Israel still had the Ark of the Covenant, it would probably be a national treasure (although I'm not sure about whether Israel designates national treasures). We honor the Constitution and Declaration of Independence with a federal facility, and Britain exhibits similar diligence with the Magna Carta and Stone of Scone. 204.52.215.107 (talk) 05:46, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

And, of course, Amaterasu's Mirror is honored with the shrine itself, isn't it? So why not make it a National Treasure? 204.52.215.107 (talk) 05:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that anonymous 204.52.215.107 proposes an excellent question; and in suggesting what appeared to have been a well-reasoned answer, this user demonstrates how understandable it is to wrongly conflate national treasure with National Treasures of Japan.

I wonder if it might be a good idea to re-frame this helpful question so that this illustrative mistake can be incorporated into the main text of the article about cultural properties designated as "National Treasures" (国宝, kokuhō)? -- Tenmei

I wonder if others will agree with me that this was a very good question and a plausibly helpful illustrative mistake? --Tenmei (talk) 15:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

From a practical perspective, you cannot make something a National Treasure of Japan without allowing someone to see it, which is forbidden, and without confirming its location, which is never done. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.245.223.207 (talk) 17:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Organisation of the list

Concerning this phrase from the article: "structures" here refers to sites; the number of actual buildings is higher

Why are Ginkaku-ji's Tōgu-dō and Ginkaku (Silver Pavillion) different sites (according to the phrase and the list) while parts of Tōshō-gū in Nikkō are listed together under Tōshō-gū? Please also have a look at this discussion. bamse (talk) 00:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Lists of National Treasures

I generated

• List of National Treasures of Japan (castles)
• List of National Treasures of Japan (miscellaneous structures)
• List of National Treasures of Japan (residences)
• List of National Treasures of Japan (shrines)

and am slowly working on List of National Treasures of Japan (temples) which together with the other lists would provide a complete list of buildings/structures which are National Treasures of Japan. (Because of lack of time, I am not going to do the same for other types of National Treasures.) I noticed that many of the individual castle, shrine,... articles don't mention the National Treasures. With these lists it is very easy to add information on which part of a temple, castle, etc. is a National Treasure. Please fell free to add to the individual articles. You also might want to link back to the lists. bamse (talk) 04:46, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I completed the list on temple structures. It can be found at List of National Treasures of Japan (temples). bamse (talk) 08:05, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Next is List of National Treasures of Japan (ancient documents). Feel free to add to the list. bamse (talk) 05:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Done.bamse (talk) 23:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

National Treasures of Japan outside of Japan

Are there any National Treasures of Japan which are located outside of Japan? bamse (talk) 05:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

No! Export of National Treasures is forbidden (it is allowed for Important Cultural Properties). bamse (talk) 21:39, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Interested in Japanese art or architecture?

...join in this project. bamse (talk) 07:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I want to join in this project. Please.--663highland (talk) 12:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Great! You are very welcome! What are you mainly interested in? I noticed that you created articles on temples (very good!). There are tasks on the todo list and there are things that people are working on. You can choose from the tasks or create your own task. Please let me know what you would like to do. bamse (talk) 15:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for welcoming me. I am interested in the Japanese culture, the buddhist temple, and architecture. I saw User:Bamse/National Treasures of Japan. And, I became very happy feelings. I noticed it was you that started writing those articles. Are you a scholar related to the Japanese culture? I was surprised at the excellent content. --663highland (talk) 12:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the compliment. I am glad that you liked the articles. No, I am not a scholar on Japanese culture. I am just interested in Japanese culture: mainly in architecture, sculptures and paintings. With your interest in architecture, maybe you would like to do one of the following: 1. find pictures for List of National Treasures of Japan (shrines), List of National Treasures of Japan (temples), List of National Treasures of Japan (residences) or any other list, 2. create new articles for national treasure temples and shrines (as you did). What do you think? Please ask if anything is unclear or if you have questions. bamse (talk) 19:07, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I added your name to the project page. Hope that it is ok. bamse (talk) 10:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for kind. May I edit User:Bamse/National Treasures of Japan without permission?

I hope there is no change in the list (List of National Treasures of Japan (shrines), List of National Treasures of Japan (temples), List of National Treasures of Japan (residences) or any other list) that exists now. However, I hope for new establishment of "National treasure of Japan" category in subdivision. It is the same division as Japanese Wikipedia. The article wants to be a little now, and, therefore, to execute it. I think that the category is enlarged in the future. --663highland (talk) 15:01, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to edit the ongoing effort section. Please let me know if you want to have anything in the other sections corrected or changed. What do you mean by "change in the list"? bamse (talk) 17:31, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry my explanation was insufficient. The meaning of "Change in the list" is "Division of the list". I do not support "Division of the list". --663highland (talk) 14:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I would love to join the effort but I'm relatively new to Wikipedia so I'm not sure how. Acire93 (talk) 21:49, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Expansion notice and a question

I started to expand the article and will ad more info over the next week or so. The article might look a bit rough in that process; my apologies. The section Former_and_present_national_treasures (which should be merged with the rest of the article) claims that there were "5,824 art works and 1,059 buildings". I could not find a source for these numbers. Does anybody know a reference for it?bamse (talk) 00:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Since I could not find a reference for the numbers and did not receive any reply, I removed the sentence from the article and put it here not to lose it completely:

• Before 1950, all the state-designated cultural properties were called "National Treasures". At that time, 5,824 art works and 1,059 buildings were so designated. bamse (talk) 11:07, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I guess that your judgment was correct.

"National Treasures of Japan" is divided in Japan on the boundary of 1950. It is "National Treasures of Japan" and "Important Cultural Property of Japan".--663highland (talk) 12:47, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

It says accurately. All "National Treasures of Japan" was changed to the name of "Important Cultural Property of Japan" (in 1950). "National Treasures of Japan" was chosen again from among that (in 1951).--663highland (talk) 12:53, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I removed it because I don't have a reference for the numbers (5,824 and 1,059). Do you have a source for these numbers?bamse (talk) 14:36, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

It is the same as the number of "National Treasures of Japan" in 1950 (Common name "Former National Treasures of Japan"). Please see ja:国宝#「旧国宝」と「新国宝」--663highland (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes. But do you have a source which is not wikipedia?bamse (talk) 16:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I was not able to find a source with the authority. --663highland (talk) 11:29, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I've translated the section from Japanese Wikipedia. After the bamse's notice, I went to a library, but could not find books about it. So I agree to remove now. I will keep searching for more information.--Mochi (talk) 14:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:National Treasures of Japan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ·Maunus·ƛ· 19:53, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I Will be beginning the reviee rather slowly as I have a lot of work presently and was not planning to review any articles.

Starting out I will say that at a quick glance I share the ip-reviewers concerns about sourcing, but I also understand Bamse's statement that the article is essentially a summary article of the many detailed lists that are all sourced. The main problem of this review I predict will be finding a balance between giving adequate sourcing for all "direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged", and respecting that this article is a summary with detailed sources found in the subarticles. I must say up front that I don't think the article will be able to pass without adding further sourcing, but that it is a question of how thorough this sourcing will have to be. I would encourage bamse to look at the way in which the summary sections in an article like World War II is sourced - it has generally at least one reference to a general work on the topic for each summary subsection. I think that ideally the same should be done with this article. ·Maunus·ƛ· 08:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

In the "Categories" section I added the database of cultural properties as reference (The Agency for Cultural Affairs (2008-11-01). "国指定文化財 データベース" (in Japanese). Database of National Cultural Properties. Retrieved 2009-12-15.). This is the most up to date and comprehensive reference available. It contains information about: names of categories and number of National Treasures, age of National Treasures, location of national treasures and in some cases more detailed information about a National Treasure. I am going to add more specific references for statements not covered by the database and then add references to the statistics section. bamse (talk) 11:48, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Good idea. ·Maunus·ƛ· 11:55, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Added references to the "Categories" section which I'd consider complete now. Am now doing the same for the "Statistics" section and should be finished by tomorrow.bamse (talk) 22:14, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Added references to the "Statistics" section. Done. bamse (talk) 22:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I'll start the review in earnest over the weekend.·Maunus·ƛ· 08:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Review

1. Well written.

a. To me as a non-native speaker the language is not problematic. I find it easy to read.

b. I have a few doubts about whether the large table in the statistics section is MOS compliant. But this will be treated under 3b.

2.Factually accurate.

a. It provides references to all sources.

b. It has an appropriate amount of in-line citations.

c. As most sources are in Japanese I am unable to assess whether the article appropriately represent the content of the sources. Out of good faith I will have to assume that they do. I am mostly concerned about how the statistics section represents its sources - it could be synthesis, but I am unable to check this.

3.Broad in its coverage

a. it certainly does cover all main aspects.

b. and then some... I think perhaps the statistics part goes a bit off. I will suggest making a separate article National Treasures of Japan (statistics) - and move the tables there while keeping a summary in situ here. This would avoid the shadow of doubt about possible MOS and OR problems mentioned in 1b and 2c.

4. Neutral.

Definitely.

5. Stable.

Definitely.

6. Illustrated.

a. very well illustrated.

I found a possible copyright problem with the file File:Jocho-Buddha150.jpg. It claims that copyright is expired - but while this would be true for a reproduction of a 2 dimensional work of art, this is a photo of a three dimensional work of art and copyright pertains to the photo itself. I think this photo will have to have its copyright status verified or be left out of the article.

Thanks for taking the time to review the article. I will replace the picture with a free image. Regarding the MOS and OR issues in the statistics section: The sources contain location and age information for all National Treasures. My work (possible OR) was to present this information in the form of a table, two maps, two timelines and calculating some percentages (for instance: Of "fine arts and crafts", more than 30% of National Treasures are written materials such as documents, letters or books. Swords, paintings, sculptures and non-sword craft items each account for about 15% of National Treasures in this category.). I don't see a problem with OR here, since it is just another way of presenting the information found in the sources. If you think it is a problem, I will move it to a statistics article together with the table. However at the moment I am not sure which information could stay and which should be moved. If you could give me a hint, that would be great. Which tables besides the large table were you referring to above? bamse (talk) 12:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I moved the large table to National Treasures of Japan (statistics) and replaced the possibly non-free image with File:Byodoin Amitaabha Buddha.JPG. bamse (talk) 12:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

It was just that one actually. I'll take another look sometime this week when I get more time.·Maunus·ƛ· 19:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

OK. bamse (talk) 19:46, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Further comments

I am very well pleased with the implemented changes. It improves readability and text flow that the large table is now gone - it also calms my doubts about MOS compliance. The sourcing is also sufficient now although it does rely on few sources that are used many times each. My two remaining concerns are with the graphical layout: the combination of many short sections with many images cause stacking problems when the article is read on a wide screen. This could preferably be handled by making the shortest sections longer (adding more detail), but also by removing some images (maybe not every category of treasure needs and image?), or combining some categories into larger sections e.g. "Shrines and temples", "Castles and residences" which would allow the photos in that section to be combined using the [option]. Also the lead should have a well chosen image. I think that after a few improvements along those lines the article will be ready for GA status.·Maunus·ƛ· 08:13, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Just to make sure, you mean the empty space below the texts in the categories section, right? I used this method to avoid stacking. Will try to get rid of the empty space and think of a picture to add to the lead.bamse (talk) 10:44, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

yes, thats what I meant.·Maunus·ƛ· 11:28, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

OK. I'll try to add more text to fill that space. On very wide screens it might still be a problem though. Already added a picture to the lead. I chose a logo since it is neutral and applies to all kinds of national treasure categories. The only other picture I could think of being neutral in this sense would be a picture of the building of the Agency for Cultural Affairs. bamse (talk) 12:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Personally I would have chosen a different image to the lead an article with such spectacular images should also have a spectacular image, not a neutral one in the lead. Perhaps even a small gallery as the ones found in articles about cultures such as in the infobox of Indigenous peoples in Mexico. I am not going to fail the article for stacking issues or choice of lead image - I just wanted you to consider combining some of the shorter sections.·Maunus·ƛ· 13:40, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Good idea having a small gallery image. However I am not good at image manipulation, so I asked for help at the photography workshop. bamse (talk) 15:52, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Since I don't fancy the empty space either, I'll add a little to the shorter sections. (Don't really like the idea of combining categories.) 15:57, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Very happy to open wikipedia today and see a pretty picture in the National Treasures of Japan article. I moved the logo down to the "Preservation and utilization measures" section. I will continue adding to the short sections in the categories section and should be done with it today or tomorrow. bamse (talk) 10:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I added text to the short sections under National_Treasures_of_Japan#Categories_of_National_Treasures. On my screen there is not much empty space left. How does it look for you? bamse (talk) 22:45, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Better, I still would prefer combining some sections, but I am OK with this solution.·Maunus·ƛ· 07:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Truthkeeper88 combined two sections, reduced levels and reformatted everything in order to reduce white space even more. On my screen there is no empty space left. Do you prefer it to the previous version? bamse (talk) 22:01, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think truthkeeper did well.·Maunus·ƛ· 07:31, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Final Verdict

Having reread the article one last time I find that alll my queries have been satisfactorily dealt with and I see no reason that this article should not now be one of wikipedias Good Artcles. Congratulations.·Maunus·ƛ· 08:57, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

many items destroyed in the 1923 Great Kantō earthquake

• Many items in the Tokyo National Museum were destroyed in the 1923 Great Kantō earthquake. See Tokyo national Museum, The Great Kanto Earthquake and the Museum : From Taisho to Showa era Ling.Nut3 (talk) 13:12, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

The page you link says: "Luckily, many of the items escaped damage...", so not sure what to make out of your comment. I'd certainly be interested in a source that tells a bit more about the pre 1950 National Treasures, i.e. what objects were included, which items were lost in earthquakes, war,.... bamse (talk) 15:58, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I spent some time looking, with little luck. Based on clues from my search results (see below) I do believe many treasures were lost, but I did not find anything resembling a good account. There were strong hints: the museum was "badly damaged", an entire National Library was destroyed along with most of its documents, different block print artists and so on "lost an entire studio" etc. But most of that came from Google Books with "snippet view" only. I found little in Google scholar. The "many of the items escaped damage" means that many also didn't, BTW. maybe a Japanese-language search would have better luck, but I'm not the person for that. Ling.Nut3 (talk) 16:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't doubt that many National Treasures were damaged or destroyed. After all there used to be many more National Treasures before 1950 (likely including most of today's Important Cultural Properties of Japan). Still one should be careful, since the TNM page you linked above, does not mention "National Treasures" but only "treasures" which may or may not be the same. bamse (talk) 18:21, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

• It seems I have not been communicating effectively. The link I gave above was just a minor (but reliable) bit of support for the idea that this "heads up" is a valid one. My underlying point is this: this is a nontrivial omission from this article, and it needs to be very diligently researched and very thoroughly covered before bringing the article back to WP:FAC. if this were at FAC, I would Oppose (and would be unwilling to change my Oppose), based on this omission alone, as per 1b of WP:WIAFA. I have already searched a little, and came up nearly completely empty-handed. Some Japanese-language searching needs to be done, preferably with input from a domain expert. I am not trying to be rude; I am trying to be plain... To give you a bit of context, I am here to help in any way I can, including copy editing, research, etc., if/when i have time... Ling.Nut3 (talk) 05:37, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Just to make sure, by "this omission" you mean the National Treasures that were destroyed/damaged in the 1923 earthquake? bamse (talk) 07:57, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

What you add depends on what you find. If there exists a full listing of all of the National Treasures destroyed, that would make an interesting spin-off "List of" article with some good redlinks and interesting details (see the link at Talk:Chōjirō for a tiny example; I hope there will be much more). If you find a good discussion of this topic, that would make at least a nice paragraph and hopefully even enough for a section. If you find a LOT of stuff, then it would make a spin-off article. In all of the above cases, at LEAST a coupe sentences in this article would be necessary, and in fact I really think that more than that can be done. I suspect that everything depends on a Japanese-language search and some good investigative skills (including asking people who would know). The fact that this topic isn't even mentioned right now is.. uh.. kinda unacceptable. I hope I am not too blunt. :-) Ling.Nut3 (talk) 08:37, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I will see what I can find, when I get time. To be fair, there is some mention of national treasures in the "Extension of the protection" section including two treasures that were destroyed in the war. bamse (talk) 10:42, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

• I just spent a few moments poking around on both the English and Japanese wikipedia.s Tons of good stuff. Can you read Japanese, or know someone who can and will help? Anyhow forex there's this. That may or may not be helpful, but I'm sure we can find something that is. Ling.Nut3 (talk) 11:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Sure I know this. It contains a database of Cultural Properties of Japan and I used it extensively to compile the various Lists of National Treasures of Japan and lists of other Cultural Properties (see {{Cultural Properties of Japan}}). However AFAIK, it is a database of today's Cultural Properties (post 1950). I doubt there is a list of pre 1950 National Treasures available online and in any case I would not be willing to write list articles for wikipedia for those treasures due to time constraints (the present lists took a couple of years to make) and limited interest of readers. In any case most/all of those treasures are now designated as National Treasure, Important Cultural Property, etc. PS: I can read only little Japanese, however if it is in computer readable form I can make sense of most texts thanks to rikaichan. bamse (talk) 11:44, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, if no list of National Treasures destroyed in the earthquake exists, then compiling that list would be work for a PhD dissertation, at the very least... but I am sure it is not necessary to make one from scratch. I am sure one exists somewhere. If it does, then it only needs translation. There may even be one in English, but it seems unlikely. Besides, I am just painting the best-case scenario when discussing such a list. No, a Very Good (and perhaps more realistic) scenario would involve finding one or two or three very reliable discussions, using them to add a paragraph or even a section, mentioning perhaps one or two or three of the most famous works destroyed, or artists whose works were destroyed. My point is just that readers should not be left completely ignorant. Ling.Nut3 (talk) 11:51, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

As mentioned before, two treasures destroyed (Hiroshima Castle and Tōdaiji Fujumonkō) are already mentioned in the article and supported by reliable sources. bamse (talk) 14:39, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

• That would be WWII. You can't just completely skip the earthquake(s). :-) Ling.Nut3 (talk) 16:48, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Repetition

I feel like there is a great deal of information that gets repeated several times. For example, the fact that Kansai has a preponderance of these objects is mentioned several times.Acire93 (talk) 00:32, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Erroneous reference.

Hello,
the #21 reference of the article, an important one, is erroneous. Indeed, the targeted PDF file does not contain any content about the article's subject; it is about "Japanese Language Policy", not national cultural properties. Unfortunately, I could not find the original document "Preservation and Utilization of Cultural Properties". Should this reference be removed ? It will be less damaging if someone could retrieve the proper original reference or bring another well qualified citation.--ContributorQ (talk) 23:19, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

That's strange. When redesigning their webpage they must have mixed up the links. The reference was certainly not about the Language Policy. Would it be possible to just remove the URL and to keep the reference as offline reference? This reference probably appears on many articles related to Cultural Properties of Japan. If that's not possible, it could be replaced by the 2015 version at http://www.bunka.go.jp/english/about_us/policy_of_cultural_affairs/pdf/2015_policy.pdf (after checking that all referenced statements are contained therein. bamse (talk) 12:24, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I found the document at [2] and corrected the archiveurl in the article. Thanks for pointing out this mistake. bamse (talk) 19:01, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Great! I did not know this website.--ContributorQ (talk) 20:14, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified (February 2018)

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NPOV

When we see the Japanese government promoting items as 'National treasures' we need to be aware that Japanese politics has been dominated by extreme right wing pro Shinto politics for decades. Some balance or criticism of the selection scheme needs to be mentioned here for the page to be reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.11.225.246 (talk) 04:28, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

I would disagree with this proposal. Referring to the selection as necessarily being the result of "extreme right wing politics" is inherintly a non-neutral viewpoint. (Your edit summary also backs up the point that your own POV isn't neutral - "right wing pro Shinto hacks don't get to tell us what is good.") What is more: if such a criticism of the selection process on the basis of their politics as viewed by us were to be placed on the page, it would likely be a failure to represent proper perspective - rather than focusing on Japan's perspective, such a criticism would be focused on a Western viewpoint of Japan's political system. Keep in mind that what Japan's government calls a national treasure is by default what makes it a national treasure, no matter how right or wrong the system is (or is perceived to be). NomadicNom (talk) 02:28, 28 June 2019 (UTC)