Talk:National War Memorial (India)/Archive 1

Archive 1

National war momorial

First time in indian history made. feel proud.jai hind — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashok haldar (talk • contribs) 02:05, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• PMO.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:37, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

info-box image for National war memorial, New Delhi, India

Which one do you think will be best for the info-box ?

• 
  National war memorial day india gate in background
• 
  National war memorial day soldiers standing
• 
  National war memorial groundshot
• 
  National War Memorial, New Delhi, India
• 
  National war memorial night lights on
• 
  National war memorial text at bottom of pillar

Eatcha (talk) 10:16, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Eatcha, ideally the infobox image should be a good resolution image without any blur and without any copyright violations and proper licensing and permissions, and capturing the essence of the article properly. I don't think we have an image of that quality as yet. For now, among these images you have uploaded:

• 1. This is good. India Gate and the Chattri are visible clearly in the background too. But the clarity and the head space between the top of the monument and the bottom. Do you know how to use the Crop tool on Wikipedia commons? Maybe you could crop this a little to make it more balanced and then you can go ahead and upload it if no one else has any objections either or any other suggestions. Before using the image please make sure to add appropriate licensing templates as explained below.
• 2. This is also ok but then the top of the main structure is cut off at the top.
• 3/4/6 These images are not suitable for the infobox in my opinion. Number 6 is a good image that can be used within the article. (But the flame is not lit so a lit flame would have been nice)
• 5. This image is nice. But there is too much blur.

Also, please add the appropriate license template to your images from Wiki commons - Template:FoP-India under the Indian Copyright Act of 1957, Section 52. Outside the memorial at the entrance to the memorial premises it clearly says on a signboard titled "Guidelines for the visitors" ... "Photography for personal use only". Even on the official website of the National War Memorial this can be seen under the Guidelines for Visitors section. I think this aspect needs to be clarified better in general related to all the images on related to this monument which have been uploaded here onto Wikipedia.

Also, since the entire memorial complex consists of more than one structure, a multi image infobox could also be considered. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 11:46, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

DiplomatTesterMan, Yes I agree that a multi image infobox would be great therefore I think we should wait until some more Images are uploaded. Eatcha (talk) 14:27, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Usage of the word martyr in the article

@Piyush00India: Please discuss the edit conflict here related to the usage of the word martyr. Thank you. DTM (talk) 13:05, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

You asked for the article showing the word 'martyred' for Sqn. Ld. Ajay Ahuja. Please provide any suitable reason or Wikipedia policy/policies in this context. Don't revert without proper reasons. USER WARNED! ~¶iyush¶ercev 13:09, 3 February 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piyush00India (talk • contribs)

I provided you the same article about this. Visit this article at https://www.honourpoint.in/profile/squadron-leader-ajay-ahuja-vrc/ . Read this article. ~¶iyush¶ercev 13:11, 3 February 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piyush00India (talk • contribs)

@Piyush00India: See [No term like 'martyr' or 'shaheed' in our lexicon: Defence, Home ministries (TOI)]? DTM (talk) 13:13, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

And slow down with the reverting, the discussion here may take a couple of days. DTM (talk) 13:14, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Have some patience and read the full article. You will get the word 'martyred' in this article. Please read it carefully. Also 'VEER CHAKRA' is awarded only to the martyrs. Don't show your stupidity. Link https://www.honourpoint.in/profile/squadron-leader-ajay-ahuja-vrc/ ~¶iyush¶ercev 13:19, 3 February 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piyush00India (talk • contribs)

Let me request some other editors to help sort this out since what happens here sort of extends to other related articles as well. Please wait for the replies.

Pinging @DBigXray:, @Vaibhavafro:, @SshibumXZ:, @Hemant Dabral: DTM (talk) 13:23, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

(responding to ping) per WP:NPOV we say killed or died, and not martyred etc. User:Piyush00India Please do not add martyr again at any place in wikipedia.DBigXrayᗙ 13:45, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

(responding to ping) "martyred" would be inappropriate here on Wikipedia per WP:NPOV.— Vaibhavafro ^💬 14:31, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

(responding to ping) First, thanks for the ping DTM! Now, I would have to agree with DBigXray here. At any rate, like you said yourself, neither the Ministry of Home Affairs nor the Ministry of Defence uses the term 'martyr' in their official terminology. Regards, SshibumXZ (talk · contribs). 16:10, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the info.
I didn't knew it before.
Thanks for letting me know!
The Government of India doesn't uses any sort of words like 'martyr' or 'saheed' for the defence forces personnels or policeman who lays their lives in the line of duty.
ALSO IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE WORD 'MARTYR' MEANS ONE WHO DIES FOR HIS/HER RELIGION OR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.
This fact is known to very few people. And I request all to know this.
The Government of India (GoI), Ministry of Defence (MoD), Indian Armed Forces and Minister of personnel don't use these words for their courageous personnels. Term used instead is 'battle casulity'. They all had said in a response to RTI filed for seeking information on this.
Clearly everybody including me are advised to not use the word 'martyred' for any solider or policeman 'killed' in the line of duty. The word 'Martyr' has a very different meaning and we don't have right to adhere our most courageous and strong defence personnels who laid their lives with this.
Government has also told the court about this, that no branch of Indian Armed Forces, CAPF, Policemen or government uses this word in any context for their soldiers officially and that it doesn't exist in their lexicon. Delhi High Court has also dismissed the PIL (public interest litigation) based on this.
So please DON'T USE THE WORD 'MARTYR' IN WIKIPEDIA OR ANYWHERE ELSE.

(Please see these reputed sources about the information
1.https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/no-martyr-status-to-paramilitary-personnel-government-tells-hc/articleshow/49769041.cms 2.https://m.timesofindia.com/india/no-term-like-martyr-or-shaheed-in-our-lexicon-defence-home-ministries/articleshow/62084997.cms 3.https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/no-shaheed-or-martyr-in-our-terminology-says-government-1788296 4.https://www.news18.com/news/india/martyr-or-shaheed-the-government-only-recognises-battle-casualty-or-operations-casualty-1605571.html 6.https://www.news18.com/news/india/with-delayed-or-no-compensation-payout-martyr-tag-for-departed-jawans-remains-mere-lip-service-2041655.html 7.https://scroll.in/article/915645/shaheed-and-martyr-are-religious-terms-should-they-be-used-for-indian-soldiers-killed-in-battle 8.https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/no-term-like-martyr-or-shaheed-in-our-lexicon-mod-mha/articleshow/62082834.cms 9.https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/no-term-like-martyr-or-shaheed-in-army-or-police-defence-home-ministries/305603 10.https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/explained-why-40-crpf-jawans-who-made-supreme-sacrifice-in-pulwama-wont-be-accorded-martyr-status/1494411/ 11.https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/martyr-status-forces-casualties-mha-356043-2016-12-06
12.https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/no-term-like-martyr-or-shaheed-in-our-lexicon-mod-mha/amp_articleshow/62082834.cms)

Thanks to DTM
NOW THREAD CAN BE CLOSED.
EVERYONE SHOULD PROPERLY READ BEFORE MAKING ANY EDIT REGARDING THIS.
THANKS!
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
Thankuu DTM 😇
user:Piyush00India
😇 User:piyush00India

INVISIBLE

---Close the Thread-------- ~¶iyush¶ercev 14:19, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

Edit conflict (the irony of it)

Karan.jr.Singh, please don't keep reintroducing text just for the sake of it. I removed the third paragraph in the intro because you picked it up word by word from the official website. What is the point? Why does a header need to say proposed when the text below it entirely says it is under construction. This is a small point, nothing to have an edit war over. Why are you making the first line bold? Please see India featured article. The text is not bold. Please read this before edit warring. This is the worst article to have an edit war over. DTM (talk) 10:43, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

DTM , i completely agree for the points you just said BUT i did changed the whole article to what it was before so whole things came back, sorry for that. I am still learning wikipedia and editing it. i was undoing your edit due to the changes you made in the words MARTYRS as Died, this is a place of respect and homage to the martyrs and not to the all simply died in a fight. I think a military memorial desrves RESPECTFUL WORDS. rest i agree with you.Karan.jr.Singh 16:22, 17 December 2020 (IST)