Talk:National primary road

Photo of new standard exit sign for restricted access roads

Strange looking sign if you ask me. What does "restricted access roads" mean. I presume the number 23 stands for junction 23? Any idea of the clearance? I wonder what the chances are that a large truck travelling in the left lane will strike the bottom of the sign? Ga2re2t (talk) 15:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

They are much higher they they look - a tall truck will cream himself at a bridge before getting to one of these! I note the NRA are using the term EXIT for the off-ramps; so this is exit number 23 on the N11 (which will appear on maps as "Junction 23"). "restricted access roads" means you can only get on and off them at junctions like this or at some smaller "left in/left out" junctions - farm gates, field gates, private residents etc cannot access directly onto the road and there are no gaps in the median separating the two carriageways.

A Motorway is an example of a high standard restricted access road but not all roads with grade-separated (flyover) junctions and restricted access are motorways due to lower standards of layout or occasional private entrances that haven't been removed. (talk) 16:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC))

It's a cantilever or half-gantry sign - introduced onto the M50 with the South Eastern Motorway opened, and is the only part of the crazed signage that was piloted on that motorway that the NRA seem intent on retaining (with good reason too, it is probably the only part of the scheme that was actually an improvement). Basically it is the last sign before the exit. So far, its also been erected on the N7 Naas Road, the N2 Ashbourne Bypass (both with the to-be-scrapped dodgey gantries) and on the N11 Gorey Bypass (in the case, regular fork ADSs are otherwise used).

Whether the NRA want to call interchanges "exits" (as in the US) or "junctions" (as in UK) seems to be a matter on ongoing debate (see here for example where the latter is used [1] - while on the N7 and N11 some gore signage has been erected with the word "Exit" and the junction number on it (these signages usually list destinations and road numbers instead). --Rdd (talk) 19:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the large EXIT signs are very clear, like the Ausfart signs in Germany (only better). The exit of course is just part of the junction. It will probably be decided by general usage whether the word "Exit" starts to refer to the entire junction, radio stations seem to use both interchangeably. The gantry signs were indeed daft as constructed because they logically implied the slow lane was a filter lane for the exit. But the use of very LARGE junction numbers on the ADS, gantries, cantilever signs, and at the Exit gore (and even on the tourist signs) is an absolutely brilliant feature compared to the crummy little black spots they use in the UK. So, some really good stuff and some really daft stuff in the mix! (Sarah777 (talk) 02:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC))

Nx road or Nx national road?

I have just reverted a page move from N11 road (Ireland) to N11 national road, pending further discussion

The move was done by Sarah777 (talk · contribs), whose contribution to articles on Irish roads has been enormous, so I'm sure that it was done in good faith for a good reason. However, the convention so far has been for Irish N-roads to be located at "Nx road (Ireland)", where x is the road number, and the move made the N11 a lone exception to that convention.

It may be that this convention should be changed, and I have an open mind on that question. However, it's much easier for both editors and readers if a series of articles such as this is named consistently, so unless there is some special reason to make an exception of the N11, I would prefer that the Irish N-road articles retained that consistency. Let's either keep them all at "Nx road (Ireland)", or move them all to "Nx national road".

I have done a little research on this (without reaching any conclusion either way), and thought it best to post it here to centralise discussion.

I did a search on google.ie of pages in Ireland for each on the roads N1 to N11, looking in each case for "Nx road" and "Nx national road". Here's what I found:

Road	Google.ie hits for "Nx road"	Google.ie hits for "Nx national road"
N1	181	7
N2	6,400	7
N3	3,550	121
N4	1,960	111
N5	2,580	1
N6	4,300	7
N7	3,080	308
N8	225	6
N9	1,220	4
N10	228	1 (the French road)
N11	1,130	2,380

As you can see, the "Nx road" format was the much common usage from the N1 to the N10, but the "national road" format was more common by 2:1 on the N11. I have not investigated any reasons for the discrepancy.

Google results can be very misleading in these matters, so I hope nobody thinks that these answers are in any way definitive. But so far I can't see any evidence that "Nx national road" is the common name for most such roads.

I am keeping an open mind on this, but please can we have a centralised discussion here before any more Irish N-roads are moved? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I have just reverted similar moves of N3 road (Ireland) and N24 road (Ireland), again pending the outcome of a centralised discussion on the naming format. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:56, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

As roads are geographic in nature, I'd opt that the roads on the island of Ireland be called 'Nx (Ireland)' & those on the island of Great Britain, be called 'NX (Great Britain)'. Avoid the primacy stuff. GoodDay (talk) 17:24, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

What is the context behind the proposed move, for example, are there disambiguation issues? Rockpocket 20:40, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

There are Nx roads in France and South Africa. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 21:08, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Britain doesn't have 'N' roads, the non-motorway primary routes are designated 'A'. These are usually disambiguated because of autoroutes / autobahns in France, Italy, Germany and so on. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 21:08, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

According to N11, there are quite a few more. It is unclear why moving it to "Nx national road" would better identify it as the Irish one rather than the Dutch, French or Swiss one? Does the "N" not stand for "national road" in those countries too? I would argue that N11 national road would be better off redirecting to N11 and leaving each road disambiguated by country. I would think, when it comes to national road systems, arguments that one is more notable than another comes down to systemic bias. Rockpocket 22:45, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I am in favour of keeping the Nx road (Ireland) convention. I see no valid argument for having the Irish national roads as the primary topic. Snappy (talk) 14:39, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Proposed page moving

IMHO, the title of this article should be "National primary road (Ireland)" instead of just "National primary road" - and likewise for the "National secondary road" and "Regional road" articles.

Why? Well, all three describe roads on the island of Ireland (including those that continue across the border into NI) and nowhere else.

Moreover, the names of the classifications of these roads are rather generic (unlike, say, A and B roads in Britain, or interstates in the USA) and could very easily be used in other countries. Indeed, France has routes nationales and Spain has carreteras nacionales - and both use the same 'N' prefix as Ireland's national primary and secondary roads... Bluebird207 (talk) 14:27, 28 June 2014 (UTC)